External wastegate. Exhaust manifold or O2 housing?

[pitbull419]

In planing my next build.The question of where to mount my wastegate has come up.\
Usually i just go with the exhaust mani mount but have been seing alot of them mounted on the o2 housing.Im wondering what you guys think is the best way to go.
Im looking for pros and cons of each mount.
And for those who think o2 housing should i use a 02 housing with the atmo dump?
ANd how should i dump my wategate?
Thanks for your help

 

[SpeedAddict62]

I won't be able to give you any answers, but I'm in the same situation. I have an Evo III mani and 14b, and would like to upgrade to external wastegate some day. But I know that welding a flange onto the #1 runner is less than ideal (both for the integrity of the mani and only being able to vent one cylinder). I assume an 02 mounted external setup on a Mitsubishi turbine housing would have much the same problems as the stock internal. Whats the best option using a Mitsubishi housing? Is there some way to weld a flange to the collector? I love fp's new mani but it doesn't include any provisions for a mani mounted wastegate.

 

[tbTalonES94]

Manifold mount should be from the collector...end of story. It just doesn't make sense to run the wastegate off of one cylinder. It may "work" but it's not the right way to do it.

External gate off the o2 housing can be dumped or re-routed. Doesn't really matter as long as it is made right and flows well of course. The big thing on mitsu turbine housings to enable good boost control is porting. Mainly taking out some of the inlet that leads down to the wastegate entrance. Make the angle more smooth and easily transitioned is key.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Well, first off dumping the wastegate to atmosphere is ridiculously loud. As in, cannot handle the noise when the windows are down loud.

Pros for manifold mount:
theory dictates that it is better for making sure you don't have boost spikes
supposedly fastest boost response
Cons
Depending on the where on the manifold you mount it, you could be pulling from only 1 runner, which is not good. (for instance SBR manifold design is not ideal, but some tubular ones have collector mounted flanges)
Pros for o2 housing wastegate mount
easier to dump back into exhaust tract
Can buy the single o2 housing and not have to worry about welding on an existing mani, or buying a new one.
Cons
Gets pretty close to Alt
pretty expensive o2 housing


I personally like the FP30 housing design the best with the wastegate flange right on the turbine housing. But not everyone (including me) has the cash for one of those.

 

[DGajre777]

For external gate o2 housings look at www.punishment-racing.com

For external gate on the exhaust manifold, the good-bad theory comes into play on where the external gate is mounted. Having it on the number 1 runner, in theory, is bad because the exhaust gases for the other 3 runners have to travel back to the no. 1 runner to vent through the external gate.

Here is an example of a tubular manifold with a collector mounted flange so the external gate pulls gases from all runners.

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[DSMunknown]

Dee, keep throwin' them photos up!





I'm not sure why people like to start threads regarding similar topics on the same day (or, that are active on the same day).



http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258699
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258922

 

[gsxtacy]

Here is one that was just thrown together...I like how it performs.

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my vote...o2 sensor housing

Pros of o2 sensor housing:

As Effective as the wastegate port in the turbine

Cons:
Limited to DSM flanged turbos
Price

best of luck on your decision...external WG with Atmos. dump IS the way to go.

 

[DGajre777]

Dee, keep throwin' them photos up!

Yeah, I wondering the same thing about the multiple threads on the same topic too.

 

[DSMunknown]

my vote...o2 sensor housing

Pros of o2 sensor housing:

As Effective as the wastegate port in the turbine

I would like to hear more about why exactly you think an external 'gate mounted on the O2 housing is superior to one mounted at the collector on an exhaust manifold (the original question implied to pick between the EM or the O2 housing, and you elected for the latter). Make a case with cost aside, please.

 

[gsxtacy]

Cost aside you ask?

Please...my setup was a DONE DEAL External Wastegate with atmospheric dump, that cost less than $250 of my hard earned washingtons total....

$250 in the real world will barely buy you a 38mm Tial WG alone, much less the custom o2sensor housing.

Not everyone has custom fabrication resources either I know...go with the best solution for your situation.

 

[turbodsm18]

$250, but that looks like a Tial knockoff and doesnt look like you have much room anymore for a dumptube.

 

[oldman]

Why is your MBC connected to the top port? It should be connected to the side port with the top port VTA.

 

[gsxtacy]

Yeah I noticed that after I posted the pic.

The pic is 2 months old as I had just put the 6152e on and just finished the install....and in fact that is the WRONG way to run it.

It is correctly routed to the lower port and the top is open now, matter of fact it was the next day after that pic was taken.

 

[gsxtacy]

yeah uhhmmm clearance issues???

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See anything else of mention there Oldman?

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[oldman]

Yeah I noticed that after I posted the pic.

The pic is 2 months old as I had just put the 6152e on and just finished the install....and in fact that is the WRONG way to run it.

It is correctly routed to the lower port and the top is open now, matter of fact it was the next day after that pic was taken.

Damn it, I had my gun drawn ready to fire back.

Wait a minute, where is your hallman mounted and where are you taking the pressure source from?

 

[gsxtacy]

I am just running wastegate spring pressure for now which in my case = 20 psi steady by 4500 rpm on stock cams.

Pressure directly from IMV port.

My Hallman makes it act all strange.....like either 20 psi or 30 ....no in between, no adjustability.

 

[oldman]

Pressure directly from IMV port.

IMV?

My Hallman makes it act all strange.....like either 20 psi or 30 ....no in between, no adjustability.

That doesn't make sense, that is exactly what would happen if it was connected to the top port. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258360

 

[gsxtacy]

yeah a typo..I meant Intake Manifold port

Backing the boost controller all the way out results in WG spring pressure....turn it in any little bit and it goes 28+.

I think the bleed port in the Hallman is too big or something..

 

[oldman]

yeah a typo..I meant Intake Manifold port

Bring it back to the compressor for both boost spike and turbo protection reasons, not to mention the diaphragm is probably not designed to see constant -18inHG worth of vacuum.

Backing the boost controller all the way out results in WG spring pressure....turn it in any little bit and it goes 28+.

I think the bleed port in the Hallman is too big or something..

If that were true, you wouldn't be able to see 20psi at all, I suspect something else is at play here. I'm about 1 week from finishing up my FP3065/Tial 44 setup, I will see if I run into the same problem with my Hallman. In the mean time, switch your boost source to the compressor housing and see if anything changes.

 

[firebirdvert305]

Currently run mine off the #1 cylinder with great sucess. Im not a fan of running it off the 02 housing, it makes no sense as to why people do it unless they port the hell out of it. The stock flapper hole is 31mm large, most people with 16g and turbos of this sort usually opt for a 34mm flapper option which still usually dosent solve the problem. I had bad boost creep problems myself (you can even search the posts under my username). I looked into porting it but since i had a 31mm, i figured why waste the time porting, pulling the turbo, reinstalling the turbo and still risk the chance of it not working again? Like I just stated the stock flapper opening is 31mm large, if you go off the 02 housing and bolt up a 38mm tial to it....the opening is still only 31mm large that the exhaust gas has to flow through and the tial has to divert. Im running mine off #1, im not having any problems with it as of yet, I get solid steady boost control with no spiking on my 16g, with 272's, 3' 02 housing, 3" DP, 3" catless exhaust w/no muffler. Ive always been a fan of the tried and true methods.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

I had the same exact problem with my Halman... my buddy was like "you sure its not hooked up backwards" I told him "Man, what do you think I am a idiot????" When I got home I busted out the directions and this idiot hoosked it up backwards. It gave me the EXACT symptoms your are describing, I would tun it all the way down and I would have waste gate pressure, I would make the smallest adjustment and it would shot past 30psi. Check dat shioet

 

[oldman]

I had the same exact problem with my Halman... my buddy was like "you sure its not hooked up backwards" I told him "Man, what do you think I am a idiot????" When I got home I busted out the directions and this idiot hoosked it up backwards. It gave me the EXACT symptoms your are describing, I would tun it all the way down and I would have waste gate pressure, I would make the smallest adjustment and it would shot past 30psi. Check dat shioet

Makes sense, maybe we got two idiots in the same thread.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

Currently run mine off the #1 cylinder with great sucess. Im not a fan of running it off the 02 housing, it makes no sense as to why people do it unless they port the hell out of it. The stock flapper hole is 31mm large, most people with 16g and turbos of this sort usually opt for a 34mm flapper option which still usually dosent solve the problem. I had bad boost creep problems myself (you can even search the posts under my username). I looked into porting it but since i had a 31mm, i figured why waste the time porting, pulling the turbo, reinstalling the turbo and still risk the chance of it not working again? Like I just stated the stock flapper opening is 31mm large, if you go off the 02 housing and bolt up a 38mm tial to it....the opening is still only 31mm large that the exhaust gas has to flow through and the tial has to divert. Im running mine off #1, im not having any problems with it as of yet, I get solid steady boost control with no spiking on my 16g, with 272's, 3' 02 housing, 3" DP, 3" catless exhaust w/no muffler. Ive always been a fan of the tried and true methods.

X10
I have ran a tial 38 off the #1 runner on a bolt on 50 trim w/2G mani. Rock solid boost control, 10 psi 20 psi and 24 psi, Rock solid. I now run a Turbonetics cast manifold with similar wastegate placement on a 61mm turbo at 20 psi, 24 psi 30 psi and now 34 psi, again ROCK SOLID BOOST CONTROL. I have had no issues with ab normal spark plug discoloring or anything like that. Isnt the manifold pressurized? Isnt all points in something pressurized equal pressure?

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

I like it on the o2 housing on a mitsu turbine turbo, if running the stock 2g manifold, the top heatshield is still in place and makes it look someone stock, as seen by the pics posted by gsxtacy.

Only con is no more AC right? The A/C fan has to be removed? Was that the only thing you had to sacrifice. Nothing else had to be removed/moved? It looks awfully close to alternator, belt vicinity.

 

[pitbull419]

I didnt see the other post like this one only the one about redirecting a o2 mounted wastegate back into the exhaust.
I dont plan on rerouting my wategate never noise is no problem.
So as long as my wategate is mounted to the collector not the #1 runner this will be as effective as if mounted to the 02 housing if not better for boost response.
So far as long as its done rite this is pretty much an opinion thing?
Is there anybody who has done research on this topic.
I would like to know because it seems like all of a sudden everybody was mounting on there o2 housing.
I didnt know if it was proven to be more effective or if somebody just decided to do it and everybody liked it and decided to follow