EVOIII16g on FWD?

[daren_p]

Alright all you guys running the EVOIII16g on a fwd, what do you think about this turbo? I recently purchased this turbo because of all the good things Ive heard about the quick spool & good top end. I havent even istalled the turbo yet, since my car is in storage for the winter & after reading all the posts on the t04b v-trim I'm starting to think maybe I should get that instead. Mainly I would like to know about driveability. Does this turbo spool up to quick for a fwd, & how is is torque steer? Currently I'm running the t25 ported and I get full boost around 2400, it feels really good in the 2800-3800 range but after that the torque falls flat on its face. So does the evo have a similar torque curve or will it continue to pull hard to the redline? With my 225/40/18ZR tires I have to feather the throttle to control wheel spin in first & then in second I can floor it with just abit of wheel spin. Is this just going to get much worse with the EVO? I like having quick spool but if I'm going to sit there & spin all the time I dont think its worth it. What rpms are most guys getting full boost with the turbo? (with all the supporting mods), ~3200?

 

[SpoOLxExO]

You know, I would usually agree with your side. (Small turbo, running efficient setup)

But in this case, the EVOIII 16g is a bit different then the reg 16g's.

And that difference is, THEY RIP!!! They spool as quick as stock 14b ( 15psi by 2800-3000)
but thorow out as much top end as a 20g.

So, you are right about spinning your tires all the time, as thats what will happen with the quick spooling 16g.

Lag is not your enemy. Too much lag is your enemy. If response is so slow, that you can not effectively use your cars powerband then thats a problem.

If your turbo spools so fast, you can do nothing but spin tires, this is also a problem.

At least I would suggest an upgraded clutch, and good sticky tires.
Combine that with a 50-trim size turbo (20psi boost by 4000rpm) and that small amount of lag is going to enable you to get more speed out of each gear later, making the even of breaking traction less likey.

Although if your not paying attention, wheel spin can happen at highway speed with that kind of turbo!

Your goals are whats most important in this type of decision. Since you have FWD, are you just trying to showboat and smoke the tires all the time? EVOIII will get-r-done.

Trying to be the Highway warrior your FWD was always destined to become? Get a Garrett variant!

I hope this will aid you in your decision!

 

[zxdude]

ive got the plain jane B16g and the other day I broke um loose on my 5th to 4th down shift at 75 MPH damm is that scary when your not expecting it... keep in mind I do live in Central Wisconsin so the roads are salty and im sure it dimminishes traction.

 

[daren_p]

At least I would suggest an upgraded clutch, and good sticky tires.
Combine that with a 50-trim size turbo (20psi boost by 4000rpm) and that small amount of lag is going to enable you to get more speed out of each gear later, making the even of breaking traction less likey.

Although if your not paying attention, wheel spin can happen at highway speed with that kind of turbo!

Your goals are whats most important in this type of decision. Since you have FWD, are you just trying to showboat and smoke the tires all the time? EVOIII will get-r-done.

I will be putting in a Center Force DF Clutch. I would rather "go" then "showboat". So when does the torque fall off on the Evo, close to the redline?

 

[SpoOLxExO]

The torque actually peaks at around 2400rpm on a normally set-up 2.0l 4g63

At that engine speed, the EVOIII is actually making about 4-5psi. This is where the torque comes from and peaks out at around 5800-6000 on your traditional 1g 4g63 with stock cams, etc.

The key with making the best powercurve with a FWD/RWD car is not the compressor, but rather the size of the turbine housing and the wheel that compliments it.

I would suggest a T3/T4 Bolt on varient, with an turbine Aspect Ratio (A/R) of at least .63. If not I know that an A/R of .80-.83 would better suit the powerband nessisary to get a FWD car to actually get down the road well.

 

[daren_p]

Any more fwd guys, ur comments would be greatly appreciated. One other thing what kind of times are you guys running with these turbos? I dont mean at the track with race gas and boost turned up to 24 psi, I was wondering about on street trim. I would be running ultra 94 and probably 18 psi to start with maybe up to 20 after head gasket and head bolts. I know tuning has alot to do with it but Im talking about a well tuned car with all the supporting mods. I would like to run high 12's in street trim (keep up with the new vettes ) but am I dreaming at 18 - 20 psi?

 

[Scrymerr]

You will not have traction. Period. Invest in an LSD, and get used to burning out anything slower than 60mph.

 

[TalonJohn94]

zxdude: where is Merril?

 

[J-Syght]

This is just me, & i might be stupid for this, but why didn't u just get a Dual Stage boost controller, i think that would have helped u out alot in the future, to keep u from just sitting there & buring tires, first stage stock boost, second stage ur choice. Just my 2 cents.

 

[12sec92Tsi]

I've got the regular s16g on my 92 fwd with most of the basic supporting mods except fmic which will be upgraded soon(see profile for full list). My act 2600 and kaaz lsd help alot with the traction issue us fwd's see but i can still smoke the tires all through 1st gear and in second until about 5000 rpm when it finally catches traction at about 50-60mph. I would recommend an lsd and sticky tires though especially for the e3 16g. By the way boost is at 18 psi on the street with 93 octane pump and it pulls HARD. (also this is with no tuning at all until i get my maft with blow thru setup.)

 

[12sec92Tsi]

This is just me, & i might be stupid for this, but why didn't u just get a Dual Stage boost controller, i think that would have helped u out alot in the future, to keep u from just sitting there & buring tires, first stage stock boost, second stage ur choice. Just my 2 cents.

My friend actually runs the TurboXS dual stage boost controller on his 98 gs-t with a super 16g, greddy fmic, 3" exhaust, afc, etc. etc. He uses 15 psi daily driven and then has it set at 24 psi for race use. He absolutely crushed me the one time i raced him and then i was even more surprised when i found out he was running 24 psi on the stock 7 bolt!! But yeah the dual stage seems to work good for him.

 

[Girvin]

my first turbo upgrade on my fwd was a s16G and I thought I had traction issues then. Next I upgraded to a "sleeper" 16G with a BM insert,ACT, etc. With the sleeper I had the idea of getting a dual stage MBC but upon just turning the boost down to 15psi I still had traction problems. Im currently running a GT-10( supporting mods of course) 15psi is just wayyyy too much for the weee fwd to put to the ground. Tho I do like the tiny increase in lag.

My AWD project is almost ready for the motor/mod swap.....dont be offended if I smile when I read future fwd traction issue threads

 

[evolvingGS-t]

I have th EVO3 on my car. I have it ported/clipped too. But depending on the day, I can spool between 2800-3100rpm. Like I said, it depends on the weather. Other then that, the turbo pulls like hell. I had and EVO8 and it pulled just as hard as the turbo in it. You can't go wrong with this turbo for the money

 

[kutschca]

I can certainly understand where you're coming from. I'm still just running the 14b with supporting mods (exhaust, MAFT, fuel, B&M LSD insert, and tuned to 17lbs of boost) and I can absolutely kill my tires in the first two gears. The idea of getting a big turbo for its increased turbo lag gets thrown around a lot, but I'm still not sure as to its validity. If the turbo spools and the power still hits like a brick, it will break loose the tires no matter if you're moving faster or not. I had a friend with a 20g in his fwd as well as a Kaaz LSD and he would spin the tires all the way through 3rd gear. For a FWD car you need to look for a turbo that will give you a progressive boost curve so that it won't create such a shock to the tires all at once.

As for my choice, I've always built my car to be purely a street car, so I'm gonna stick with the E16g.

Hope this gives you some food for thought. I would like to hear from someone with a FWD and a larger turbo (t3/t4, or 50-trim) and see how it works for them.

 

[daren_p]

Ya I Kaaz lsd will be installed in the near future, and I was going to get a dual stage boost controller but I've got pretty good at feathering the throttle to keep the car at the edge of traction with the instant spoolin t25. So the EVO feels like is pullin hard to the red line? or does it loose some of its pull after the initial spool up? Like I said I only have the t25 to compare to, which fells good when the boost first hits but only for maybe 1000 rpms, even though I get 15 psi to just over 5000 rpms, it feels like it loses its pull after about 4000rpm, which I dont like & I want to make sure that my new turbo wont do that. What kind or cars are you beating with the evo? I would like to pull on the camaro ss, late 90's svt cobra, mid 90's corvette etc. & keep up with the new corvette is this realistic with this turbo? (All supporting mods, 18 psi or so & proper tunning)

 

[evolvingGS-t]

I have the phantom grip LSD and I don't wheel spin very much at all. It's a killer LSD. Yes it 'feels' like it pulls to redline. But then I have quit a bit of supporting mods. For the money and about 30000$ less then my EVO I practically have one minus the AWD. I'm also running 1.5bars of boost. With some good mods, your turbo should pull thru the rpms pretty good. I have beat many kinds of cars, and also lost to many cars. My old man has a z06 and I can keep up with him up to 3rd and bamm..he's gone. You're going to take out the camaro ss, and especially the cobra svt. Late corvettes and such should be easy if you know how to drive.. AND ALL OF THIS IS ON THE TRACK OF COURSE.!!!!

 

[GPTourer]

A KAAZ shouldv'e been my first mod to this car. But at any rate, the EVO3 has much better spool properties then the T-25, 1st is almost useless, 2nd is okay if I'm going straight. A dual stage BC, or maybe an EBC is something I will look into, but I think the EVO3 is a really good FWD turbo.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

after injectors and tuning, a kaaz/quaife/BM LSD will be in my future.

btw, POS Semperit snow tires + 16 psi + 20* weather = t3h suCk

 

[kazzam]

I got a 50 trim on a fwd running at 16psi. This turbo screams past 4000rpm. It will rip your tires off the ground at 16psi or 14psi if its colder then 60 degrees out and spin all the way to redline!! Its not bad though, running at 17psi on race gas and untuned i managed to run a 14.00@108 trap. That tells u how traction is. However, If you get the solid motor mounts, get a 16 inch rim with some 225/55/16 tires on em and deflate to 19psi. You will be running 2.0 in the 60 foot all the time!!. Motor mounts make a huge difference when hooking up! take note! They r cheap too.
Also this turbo is extremely streetable. The car makes a descent amount of torque from 2k to 3k and thats what most of my driving is in. its more then enough for city driving. when this turbo starts to spool around 3000rpm to 3500 or so, it pulls even better but still off boost. I rarely hit boost driving in the city, and in highway/city combined driving i'll regularly get 350 miles to the tank.

Over all its an awesome turbo when u get on the boost. it ended up saving me gas money and has tons of top end. Get one! U wont' be disapointed.
PS: I can grab 1st gear with the setup mentioned above, cause it only has time to boost to like 7 or 8 psi cause its so fast.
Hope this helps, i'll be more then happy to answer any questions so dont' hesitate.

 

[kutschca]

Kazzam, when your turbo spools in 1st or 2nd gear does it hit hard enough that it breaks the tires loose, even though you're going a little faster. I have no doubt that I would love a 50-trim turbo (especially because I pick all of my races on the highway) but I don't think it's going to help me with traction in the lower gears. Am I correct? Thanks for any help.

 

[DSMSpyder99]

thats y i dont like 50-Trims on FWD. i have a e16G w/ a decent set of tires and i BARELY spin in first @ 15PSI. I didnt want to deal with the same problems my friend has with his GST + 50-trim

 

[dsmrunaway1]

.....I can't wait until i get my scm61 on the street....Im repping the fwd big time...cams ,smim and all....although my water line thats goes to the stock turbo is not needed anymore because of the new turbo....i tried taking it off (prob hasn't been touched in all of the 170,000 miles) Totally rebuilt motor though everyone.... and the bolt is stripped...should i jus get the non turbo water pipe...what should i do....but soon as i get this thing on ill report how she roasts....i got 4 a032r's though..so will see how those tires do...

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

.....I can't wait until i get my scm61 on the street....Im repping the fwd big time...cams ,smim and all....although my water line thats goes to the stock turbo is not needed anymore because of the new turbo....i tried taking it off (prob hasn't been touched in all of the 170,000 miles) Totally rebuilt motor though everyone.... and the bolt is stripped...should i jus get the non turbo water pipe...what should i do....but soon as i get this thing on ill report how she roasts....i got 4 a032r's though..so will see how those tires do...

a032r's are autox tires, stiff sidewall. Just jam a bolt in the water port and weld it shut. Works fine

 

[Vegas Smith]

thats y i dont like 50-Trims on FWD. i have a e16G w/ a decent set of tires and i BARELY spin in first @ 15PSI. I didnt want to deal with the same problems my friend has with his GST + 50-trim

you must not be making any power then. i had nitto 450's, an lsd and full suspension on my old 16g fwd and i still had no traction in 1st gear at all.

 

[CatchMe]

I pulled a 2.16 60ft. on my size 205/55/16 Advan A032R'S back when I was making around 360whp. Now that I have alot more power, i've put on some 225/45/17 BFG drag radials and I still spin through 1st and 2nd...