EVOIII 16G addtitional mod questions

[2GturboTALON]

So from all my reading on here and my current setup , i see that i can get to 18psi and probably no more than that on my fuel setup and still be safe. The problem i am running into is creeping much beyond 20 psi. Do i have to change my injectors and Fuel pump or can i just get bigger injectors and be safe if i do go higher than 18psi.

EVO 3 Big 16G
Ngk BPR7ES
ported O2 housing
Cone filter w/ cold air box
Forge 1g BOV
Apexi n1 downpipe
APexi n1 exhaust
Dejon tool intercooler piping
Evo 8 injectors
evo 8 fuel pump
APexi SAfc II
Greddy Profec "oldschool 3 button" EBC
Logging with OBDgauge

 

[viperlp01]

You might beable to get the boost levels safely with that set up. The evo 8 pump rewired flows more than a 190 so you can get some good numbers out of it. The injectors might be able to handle it. What are your IDC's? timing advance? I am running out of fuel right now with a nowired 190 at around 18lbs with 680cc. I simply need to rewire the pump and i should be solid. Try that. The only diff between the set ups is your running a ported o2( i dont creep at all but i have a mbc???) and i run a maft and your run a safc...

 

[pboglio]

Agreed, a rewire will help out tremendously, you will be shocked by how much extra fuel you'll be getting. I'm out of fuel on my Denso 660cc injectors at 25 psi running pump gas a/f ratios. 560cc injectors leave precious little headroom.

 

[bvass]

So from all my reading on here and my current setup , i see that i can get to 18psi and probably no more than that on my fuel setup and still be safe. The problem i am running into is creeping much beyond 20 psi. Do i have to change my injectors and Fuel pump or can i just get bigger injectors and be safe if i do go higher than 18psi.

EVO 3 Big 16G
Ngk BPR7ES
ported O2 housing
Cone filter w/ cold air box
Forge 1g BOV
Apexi n1 downpipe
APexi n1 exhaust
Dejon tool intercooler piping
Evo 8 injectors
evo 8 fuel pump
APexi SAfc II
Greddy Profec "oldschool 3 button" EBC
Logging with OBDgauge

I think you should address the creeping problem first. You can port the turbo or get an external waste gate

Definitely rewire the fuel pump. It is a cheap and great mod. If I were you I would wait on the injectors until i get a better tunning system like DSMLink or AEM.

 

[viperlp01]

I think the creeping problem is the EBC... Thats just me...

 

[Dsmj89]

For the boost creep problem, i suggest you get the upgraded 34mm flapper to help further assist in expelling the excess gases.
If you want, you can also get an externally dumped o2 housing to help with this as well if you don't mind a little loudness at WOT.

 

[DSMunknown]

You may want to (or should have) look into the Evo MAS swap as well. Much cheaper and no tuning involved.

 

[2gGSX]

I'd stay with the 550's if you plan to stick with the SAFC. What kind of airflow are you seeing? With the 550's and the stock 9.5:1 tune you'll be at near 100% IDC with only 35 lbs/min, which is about what I've seen stock engine Evo 3 setups flow around that boost. At 10.5:1 the IDC should drop to around 90%.

The point is, it will push your setup pretty hard...

 

[viperlp01]

evo 8 injectors flow at around 575cc so he has some room... I would recommend going alittle leaner... I mean why wouldn't you want more power safely....

 

[2gGSX]

evo 8 injectors flow at around 575cc so he has some room... I would recommend going alittle leaner... I mean why wouldn't you want more power safely....

Fine, he'll be at 96% IDC at 35 lbs/min with the stock 9.5 tune, and 87% with a 10.5 tune. Tuning for a leaner AFR is not the answer to an insufficient fuel system, as you're just band-aiding the issue.

 

[pboglio]

Do you guys really think that EVOIII 16g is going to magically limit itself to 35 lb/min? A creeping EVOIII 16g can pull +42 lb/min, mine pulls 44 lb/min. I can weld the wastegate closed and go WOT and not worry about my fuel system keeping up. Lean a/f ratio might work on race gas. But that kind of lean on pump gas isn't going to buy anything but a new motor.

 

[2gGSX]

A stock 7 bolt motor is definitely not going to see 42+ lbs/min most of the time. 35 lbs/min at 20 psi on a stock 7 bolt is a fair estimation. I agree with the last half completely though.

 

[2GturboTALON]

Ok so now im looking into 1 of 2 options. Buying bigger injectors to be ready for the future of this Big 16G or getting a dsmchip. Should i keep what i have and get the chip or go bigger with injectors ? im looking at possibly 680CC

 

[1badtsiawd]

i'd def. do the fuel pump rewire. great mod that doesn't cost much. I would also look into a front mount if i were you. Running a evo 3 at 18-20 psi, a front mount would do you good.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

If you are going to get a chip then you should get bigger injectors now. I would even go bigger than what you want so that you will have room to grow. I went with 880cc a long time ago...which was bigger than what I wanted at the time....Now im wishing I would have went with somthing around 1000cc or bigger. Anyways you will want to go with bigger injectors so that you wont have to get the chip reburned after you upgrade.

 

[1badtsiawd]

If you are going to get a chip then you should get bigger injectors now. I would even go bigger than what you want so that you will have room to grow.

i agree, i went with 720's from stock. didn't need that much at the time but it saved later on. Depending on your goals 1000cc's might be a little extreme. like i said though, depends on your goals. Over the past 10 years i have found that you should just buy what you really want the first time and not just buy something smaller because it is cheaper right now and will work at the time. Always think down the road.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

i agree, i went with 720's from stock. didn't need that much at the time but it saved later on. Depending on your goals 1000cc's might be a little extreme. like i said though, depends on your goals. Over the past 10 years i have found that you should just buy what you really want the first time and not just buy something smaller because it is cheaper right now and will work at the time. Always think down the road.

That would allow me/whoever to have the option to run E85. I live pretty close to an E85 station (about 20 min with no traffic) but not close enough to run it all of the time. Thats why I decided to go with meth injection. So if you ever plan on running E85 just remember you need more fuel so you need more injector.

 

[dsm-onster]

Just a heads up. The evo fuel pump is NOT enough and is NOT like a 190 fuel pump because it has an internal pressure relief valve that opens at about 22psi boost at stock base fuel pressure, 65psi total pressure.

 

[2GturboTALON]

According to Jeff at dsmchips, i will be close but should be fine for now.

At 43 psi base fuel pressure + 23 psi boost, the EVO pump will need to deliver fuel at 66 psi. According to the data I have, non-rewired that pump can only deliver ~135 liters/hour. The EVO injectors typically flow 585cc or more, as much as 610cc. 135 liters/hour would be 96% duty on 585cc injectors, so its very close to leaning out if you really push those injectors
Jeff O.
dsmchips.com

 

[the_mork]

If you aren't careful every time you drive your car you could run into enough creep to be a problem or if a vacuum hose comes off or tears then you will not be in a happy place.

An evo9 pump would solve your problem, they don't have a pressure relief valve so you would be much safer switching to that and selling your evo8 pump. Do as you like though it is your engine.

 

[dsm-onster]

According to Jeff at dsmchips, i will be close but should be fine for now.

Try 105lph rewired! 169lph at 60 psi and 42lph at 70 psi means 105lph at 65psi (22psi boost + 43psi base). 450s at 100% duty cycle outflows that

Evon9 (mentioed above)? 177lph at 65psi. 710cc injectors at 100% idc won't flow more (at 22psi boost).

 

[2gGSX]

Be sure to note that the numbers Matt posted are assuming you actually get 14V to the fuel pump. On these 10+ year old cars, I highly doubt a simple rewire will do that. Not getting an upgrade as cheap as a Walbro 190 should not be reason to push the safety margins.

 

[2GturboTALON]

I'm very thankful for all the info you guys have posted. That's why i love this board. I'm going to look into other pumps. What options am i looking that will remain as quiet as current setup.

*EDIT*Just checked and it says that an EVO IX will overrun my FPR. I guess i can try 190lph and see what happens. Also read some things that may turn me away from walbro

Although Walbro fuel pumps are generally a quality product we have seen some failures from time to time. In the event of a fuel pump failure Walbro requires that the customer send the pump to their facility for inspection which requires cutting the pump in half rendering it more useless than it already was. In the event that the failure was caused by something outside of their control (contamination, etc) they will not only deny the warranty claim they will charge the customer a $40 fee for the inspection! Although we do not feel this program is either fair or effective we simply have no other option to offer our customers in the event of a failure. With that said we must reiterate that we are unable to accept returns or exchanges for defective Walbro fuel pumps based upon the above mentioned warranty procedure. If you have an issue with a Walbro fuel pump you must communicate with Walbro directly to resolve the issue.

Directly from MAperformance

 

[the_mork]

I run an evo9 pump and I'm not suffering any major ill effects. I may be overrunning because I have a somewhat crappy idle but I believe that is more from leaky TB seals. With gas being as cheap as it is I really don't mind this minor overrun condition (if it exists at all). Some people run 255HPs without an AFPR and while I don't recommend this at all they get away with it. The evo9 pump seems docile enough for my setup without an AFPR so I don't see any harm.

 

[2GturboTALON]

From everything i've read . I know the 190lph pump can overrun the stock and a 210lph evo9 definitely will. I plan to keep this turbo on for a long time unless something happens to the turbo itself. It's only 5 months old. I may just have to wait on the chip. It kinda sucks because now i'm goin backwards with my mods. Two questions I have at this point.


-evo 8 injectors-enough to get my car into high 12's?
-evo 8 fuel pump-goto evo 9 pump and get afpr or just get 190lph and save some cash.