Engine went boom

[Turbo2g]

Out of no where I started the car and heard a terrible knocking noise. Turned off right away, to avoid further damage. Grabbed a friend to crank while I listened under the hood. After checking a few things, started again and got a lot of banging around in the top of the engine. Then it became a crank no start. I'm almost certain it jumped timing and valves hit pistons. Sounds like it may have broken off rocker(s) from what I heard bouncing around.

Looking for advice on the best way to go about this. I have to re-time the engine in order to get a compression check. At which point I may find the head needs to come off anyway. The timing process would be a waste of time if that's the case. Should I pull the valve cover first? If I find damaged components, is it worth replacing them, timing the engine, and compression checking? Or is it a definite thing that the valves are destroyed too. I don't want to be throwing parts and work at it only to tear it back down.

Here's what I think happened. On the ground where it is currently parked, there are a bunch of nuts from a tree. My car never had upper timing covers when I got to it. A rodent may have decided to store its stash down in the lower timing cover area. Hench why a perfectly fine running daily with no signs of issues suddenly went boom.

 

[chrysler kid]

You have to start by removing the lower timing cover and checking to find top dead center

Report back, post pictures

 

[doubleclutch]

Pull the valve cover, most likely if it jumped you will see rockers knocked off.

 

[Turbo2g]

Haven't done any kind of diagnosis yet since this happened late-ish last night. As soon as I can plan time to get it properly inspected and do the work, I'll post what I find. Gonna start with checking timing to see that it's off (which I expect to see) but have to verify. Once verified, I'll pull the valve cover to see if there's damage (which I also expect to see). Then I'll probably just pull the head and re-build it if that's the case.

I'll find out if there actually is evidence of something down in the lower timing cover. If so I guess it's a lesson to keep the timing area covered. I'll be locating the upper and middle cover for this time around.

 

[Turbo2g]

The harmonic damper came apart. A section of the rubber bonding got caught in the timing belt and made it jump. I pulled the valve cover and saw no visual damage, so I set timing and did a compression test. Cyl 2 is completely dead. Leak down test shows the intake valves are shot. Head's got to come off.

 

[chrysler kid]

It's not that much extra work . Bonus is you can just cut the belt off now and not have to worry about damaging anything

I just undid the throttle body, un bolted the turbo, un bolt the thermostat housing, 8 head bolts later youre done

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[Turbo2g]

I'll plan my repairs once I get the head off. I should be able to get this all fixed for around $100. Found a head gasket/complete upper gasket/seal set for $55, a balancer for $27, and I'll see how many valves need replaced once I get a look inside. Cyl 1,3, and 4 still have the 150 psi compression I had on it when I picked it up. Only Cyl 2 is dead. I don't see any need to send the head out to be checked. All the valvetrain components look fine. The engine starts and makes no bad noises running on 3 cylinders. Ran it with the valve cover off and watched all the valves open and close. I'll just straight edge the surface and make sure it's within spec. If it's obviously just one or more chipped/bent/whatever valves, I'll just replace them and put it back together. Only if I see damage to the valve sealing surface will I have to go further.

 

[lasthope05]

Bent valves usually mean cracked valve guides also with theses heads so don't get your hopes up.

 

[donniekak]

Bent valves usually mean cracked valve guides also with theses heads so don't get your hopes up.

This.

 

[95eclipser]

Pull the valve cover. Jumped timing using means rockers scatter around in the head.

Pull the VC is easy and quick and could tell you a lot. Or grab a camera and scope the piston.

 

[Turbo2g]

Already checked, There was non of this ^^^

Who has the specs for the valves and guides? And the maximum allowed deviation from spec, ect? I'll be using my own micrometers, ball gauge, and dial indicator to check. I have a straight edge/feeler gauges for the surface, and the spring compressor. My shop sends all our heads to Napa's machinist and I don't really like this particular guys work. I've got heads back that are below quality. Valve noises after install, leaking seals, loose cam main caps, etc. I'm going to do the bast I can to check them.

I've had many valves hit pistons and do the repairs on many vehicles. I never had any with a guide issue. I'll do the checks though. I don't expect it to be a problem. What I would't be surprised by is a 180k engine having worn enough guides to be replaced anyway. I'll let you know when I get to that point.

 

[skunkprodigy]

ouch i had some critters stuff about 4lbs of nuts in my non turbo air filter housing . i will always check and block off this type of stuff from now on because of it . good luck with the nutty situation WTF

 

[Turbo2g]

ouch i had some critters stuff about 4lbs of nuts in my non turbo air filter housing . i will always check and block off this type of stuff from now on because of it . good luck with the nutty situation WTF

Thanks man, but it turned out to be the harmonic damper that failed. I thought it would be nuts or something because I'm missing timing covers. But the rubber ring holding the inner and outer shells together came out and went into the timing belt. Bent my valves up. Still haven't had the time to get the head off.

 

[skunkprodigy]

damn that sucks so it ate the harminc balancer rubber bond and jumped timing . just cant win huh

my uncle just had to replace tge harmonic balancer on his hhr . the shop said it was bottom end going tried getting him to replace the engine ...figured it out went to junk yard 45 $ later hhr runs perfect . i never trust shops anymore , , hows the weather out there ? its f***n freezin here

havent seen that yet on these cars . but ive seen all kinds of goofy shit happen ..

 

[boostjunkie92]

time to rebuild the head. good luck

 

[Turbo2g]

Pulled the head off today. Piston looks totally fine, but funny thing is, there is no visual problems with the head or valves either. I'm sure the problems in the head, so I will be sending it out to be checked. I had zero compression on cyl 2 checking it a few times. I can turn the cams and watch all 4 valves seat nicely. Must be something there I'm not seeing.

Also found several huge cracks in the turbo manifold on top and bottom I didn't know about because the heat shield. Never heard even the slightest noise from any leaks. The cracks can be seen from the inside too . So I'll weld that up while the heads out.

 

[motomattx]

The manifold and turbine housing on Oem stuff if very typical, about 100% of them are cracked.

 

[Bo0sTeD 4G63]

Pulled the head off today. Piston looks totally fine, but funny thing is, there is no visual problems with the head or valves either. I'm sure the problems in the head, so I will be sending it out to be checked. I had zero compression on cyl 2 checking it a few times. I can turn the cams and watch all 4 valves seat nicely. Must be something there I'm not seeing.

Also found several huge cracks in the turbo manifold on top and bottom I didn't know about because the heat shield. Never heard even the slightest noise from any leaks. The cracks can be seen from the inside too . So I'll weld that up while the heads out.

I have a spare stock turbo manifold if you are interested.

 

[Turbo2g]

I work at a shop and we have a welder, I think I'll just go that route. Thank you though.

 

[chrysler kid]

Fill the #2 cylinder with some motor oil and see if it bleeds down over night.

You can do the same with the cylinder head.

I prefer oil to water

 

[pauleyman]

You sure it didnt just jump time enough to lose compression? If valves hit there will be clear indicators.

 

[Turbo2g]

You sure it didnt just jump time enough to lose compression? If valves hit there will be clear indicators.

I reset the timing so I could do the compression check. All cylinders came back to life except #2 with zero compression.

 

[Turbo2g]

Fill the #2 cylinder with some motor oil and see if it bleeds down over night. You can do the same with the cylinder head. I prefer oil to water

I just sent the head out to the machine shop today, they’ll figure it out. I’ll update once I get word from them.

 

[pauleyman]

I reset the timing so I could do the compression check. All cylinders came back to life except #2 with zero compression.

Look very closely at the piston tops. You should see the hit. If there is any nick, ridge etc. Remove it

 

[Turbo2g]

Look very closely at the piston tops. You should see the hit. If there is any nick, ridge etc. Remove it

I'll see what the word is on the valves/head before I mess with the bottom end. If they find no issues, then obviously I'll be focusing on the piston. I did a leakdown test as I said and it was an intake leak. You could just barely see where the valves touched. The slightest bit carbon was removed by the hit, and after I brushed off the rest of the carbon you can't even tell they touched. I don't think there is any damage to the piston. I really hope not at least.