Engine rebuild gone wrong, please help!!

[jeramie008]

I have a 91 Laser RS turbo. Over a year ago my car started driving sluggishly as though driving through molasses. I thought that it might be an exhaust issue, so I took it to Midas. They indicated the exhaust is fine and thought it might be the timing. They replaced the timing belt, but that didn't fix the problem. They then ran a compression check and found that one of the cylinders wasn't getting the right amount of pressure. They indicated that it would probably require major valve or cylinder work to fix the problem. I checked with some mechanics and given that the car has more than 170,000 miles they all recommended either purchasing a used engine or having the current one rebuilt. I had the engine rebuilt by a local mechanic who had been recommended by a couple of local machine shops. The car was returned to me in April '05 and it has been in and out of the shop 4 times for different reasons. In June the car just died on me after driving with the same symptoms that it had displayed prior to the engine rebuild. The mechanic indicated that some valves were bent and that it was due to his replacing the timing belt improperly. He later told me the machine shop said valves were severed and that could only be caused by redlining the engine. I've never driven the car "hard", nor anywhere close to redlining the engine. I've been told by a Chrysler mechanic that that engine has a redline inhibiter and shouldn't have been able to redline anyway. Is it possible for valves to be bent or severed by redlining alone, or a timing belt improperly installed? Please help.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

The car does have a rev limiter that cuts fuel at a pre set rpm. Don't know what it is for the N/T, but it is 7500rpm on a stock 4G63. My car, as I'm quite sure plenty of others, has bounced off the rev limiter several times. 1st gear is a killer for rpm based fuel cut, but I have never had it skip timing.

I don't know if the N/T engine has a tensioner for the timing belt, although I would be surprised if it didn't, but it sounds like that WAS NOT replaced when the new timing belt components were put on and it just lost tension which caused the engine to take a dump. If this is the case and you didn't specifically tell him to replace it...your just screwed.

Of course as long as it has been it will be rather hard to proove he didn't do the install correctly...your just screwed.

Sorry.

Jim

 

[bane3d]

He has a RS Turbo. I thought that meant it's a typical 4G63T. If it has severed valve stems, that's the mechanics bad job. I've never heard of red lining doing that. I'd say that you took your car to a mechanic that didn't do the job right. You might have doen some hard pulls after getting it, but that shouldn't cause timing to jump. Most mechanics in my area (at least honest ones), won't rebuild an engine, they want a crate engine because too often the parts that they have to work with are too far gone to be able to give a good warrenty on the engine. Now if they did rebuild the engine, did they show you the specs and show you that the engine is within all of the tolerances. I'd say you are in for a world of aggrevation with this. I wish you luck. What was the total cost for the repairs? It may need to go to small claims court unless you surpass the minimum limit in your state.

d

 

[FORMONTOYA]

He has a RS Turbo. I thought that meant it's a typical 4G63T.

I thought it meant he had a stock RS that he put a turbo kit on, no engine swap. A little clairity would shed some light as to who is correct.

If he got the car back in April 05 and it finally took a dump in June 05, an incorrect TB job would have immediatly shown up way before 2 months had elapsed. That is why I would think that a tensioner was not replaced and it just finally got weak and then skipped timing. Either way, 6 months down the road is a long time to wait and still think you are going to prove anything. IMO he's going to have to chaulk it up to experience and move on. Sucks, but that is how life works sometimes.


Jim

edit: woops I see it is a Laser RS Turbo, I just saw RS and was thinking Eclipse RS.
Either way, I still vote for the tensioner not being replaced and it just crapped out causing the timing to skip and bend/break the valves. Still screwed after 6 months.


Jim

 

[bane3d]

IIf he got the car back in April 05 and it finally took a dump in June 05, an incorrect TB job would have immediatly shown up way before 2 months had elapsed. That is why I would think that a tensioner was not replaced and it just finally got weak and then skipped timing. Either way, 6 months down the road is a long time to wait and still think you are going to prove anything. IMO he's going to have to chaulk it up to experience and move on. Sucks, but that is how life works sometimes.


Jim

Doh, missed that. Jim, I think you are right on this. 6 months is usually the limit of warrenty for work like this. Was it acting up at all in between that time?

d

 

[jeramie008]

I paid $3200 for the rebuild. The car is an RS Turbo with a stock turbo. I do know the timing belt was replaced, but I don't know if the tensioner was replaced or not. For $3200 it certainly should have been. The mechanic did give a warranty of 3 year/ 30,000 miles with no limitations on the warranty. He simply wrote "3 year/ 30,000 mile warranty Engine" on the receipt. I'm in the Army so I took the matter to the JAG office. I'm getting free legal advice from them. The burden is on the mechanic to place limitations on the warranty, and since he simply wrote "engine" he is liable for repairing the engine. The mechanic has been non-responsive about the issue, as the car has been back to his shop 3 previous times, and his wife is tired of him having to fix his mistakes for free when they could be working for paying customers. Ultimately this will probably end up in small claims court and so as a non-mechanic, I was hoping for some insight into whether the damage could have been done by me or was a result of negligence from the mechanic. The laser is a fun car, but I've never looked into modifying it because I'm 31 years old and just don't have any interest in racing it. I've been exceptionally cautious in driving it since the engine work was done, because I can only drive it a couple of days before it breaks down again. Since the car was originally "fixed" in April, it has been returned for: fuel injectors/fuel filter needed to be replaced, some piece in the engine shattered and was replaced, the timing was set incorrectly or the timing belt was put on wrong, and then finally returned the last time in June. The car has shown the same symptoms all times, except when the part shattered. That caused oil to start leaking like crazy and I shut it down immediately. The car was towed back to my apartment in November, because neither the mechanic nor the machine shop are willing to honor the warranty.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

For $3200 you should have an engine that would last at least a year with no problems at all. And if what you say is true about not just "beatin' the hell out of it", then my responce is "no, you did not cause this problem". Of course I don't know you or your driving habits, I can only go by what you are saying.

If he wrote 3yr/30k then it sounds like you are on the right path...small claims court it is. I'm still voting for a botched timing belt job, some people try and cut corners by not replaceing a $75 part, tensioner, and end up causing many times more money and time in damages. which is what this sounds like.

my .02


Jim

 

[Doug99RS]

If the valves are truly sheared then it's my opinion that the interference did not occur at low RPMs (i.e. idle to 2,000 rpm). I've seen bent valves, kissed pistons and the like but it simply doesn't happen to shear an entire set of valves at low RPM. Not enough force and the engine won't run long enough after initial contact.

This still leaves open the idea of shearing valves at the top of a gear run (4K normal driving?) being the end result of a failure. The timing belt tensioner as well as other bearing style pullies in there are still suspect though.
Doug

 

[jeramie008]

When the car broke down the final time, it was driving as it had when it broke down previously. It simply felt like driving through molasses. But at no time did I have to drive with the RPM's at a higher than normal rate. The RPM guage goes to what, 9000 with 7000 through 9000 being in the red? I never drive higher than 5000 RPM, and because it was driving funny, drove it at no more than 4000 RPM.

 

[Doug99RS]

When the car broke down the final time, it was driving as it had when it broke down previously. It simply felt like driving through molasses. But at no time did I have to drive with the RPM's at a higher than normal rate. The RPM guage goes to what, 9000 with 7000 through 9000 being in the red? I never drive higher than 5000 RPM, and because it was driving funny, drove it at no more than 4000 RPM.

In my opinion you did no abuse it then based on he information you provided but the RPM limit you reached could have been enough to shear the valves. Most of the time if the valves are sheared you'll hear lots of rattling around and clanking. Bent valves would have led to poor vacuum/engine breathing which would exhibit itself as poor acceleration and poor idle. It's all kind of guess work at this point really without the car being in front of me.
Doug