Engine noise please help

[Nosroxs]

2g 96 eagle talon tsi 4g63t fwd, 180,000 miles. 14b turbo swap, hard inter cooler piping and tubular header, other then that engine is stock..

Can you guys help with this? I am about to start throwing shit seriously damn dsm's , is my engine toast ?? here is a sound clip recorded off my phone that was sitting right in front of the head right above the manifold.

Memo_1.mp3


I have noticed a little loss of power since i started hearing this knocking noise but not enough to were the car doesn't run right., so i thought it was my 14b turbo i just installed; so i pulled the intake pipe and checked my turbo for shaft play, absolutely none. So i got under the hood with car running and revved it up through the throttle body and this is what i hear coming from the engine. Please help, i am lost and don't know if i should go looking for a new head or a new engine..

 

[dsmgst1996]

link is broken

 

[Nosroxs]

Did it say embed because i changed it i was trying to have it as a player right on the forum but i am not that smart i guess. but i fixed it.. thanks..

 

[clipto]

Best 2 things I can think of is pull the valve cover off and inspect it you can post pics and see if we can see anything. Next thing is drop the oil pan and check if there is anything messed up like the crank or the rods or what not. What weight oil do you use? Have you been keeping up on oil changes? That doesn't sound like lifter tick. You say no shaft play in the turbo but are you litely jiggling it or actually moving it up and down, side to side with some force? Could be turbo knocking on the housing. Do you see any scratches inside the turbo housing where the wheel is? If it happen's at a certain rpm that could be where the turbo is spooling up a decent amount to knock around in the housing. Otherwise some sort of engine knocking.

 

[donniekak]

Hard to tell from the recording, but It sounds like a rod bearing.

 

[Nosroxs]

Best 2 things I can think of is pull the valve cover off and inspect it you can post pics and see if we can see anything. Next thing is drop the oil pan and check if there is anything messed up crank, rods or what not. What weight oil do you use? Have you been keeping up on oil changes? That doesn't sound like lifter tick. You say no shaft play in the turbo but are you litely jiggling it or actually moving it up and down, side to side with some force? Could be turbo knocking on the housing. Do you see any scratches inside the turbo housing where the wheel is?

I will definitely pull the tap it cover, then go from there, I have always used Valvoline max life that the shop puts in i believe 10w30 and the oil level dropped really low from something a leak i haven't been able to find yet but as soon as i noticed the oil level i got it changed but yeah i don't know how long it was running low but i don't believe it was for more then a day maybe 2 or id say not more then 30 miles. I don't drive it a whole lot. as for the turbo i pushed pretty hard on intake side and got no movement at all in out up down nothing. I looked in the intake side with a flash light and seen nothing obvious, i will check the hot side soon as i can get one of the o2 housing bolts off without breaking it 2 of them came out no problem along with the 1 nut but one is being stubborn even tho i just installed the 14b a month ago. But thanks ill post some more pics in about 30 minutes. I am gonna go pull the tappet cover and take some pics.

 

[clipto]

Ok good info. Honestly majority of that sound and known issues point to spun rod bearing/rod knock. By luck it may be something you can knock out, otherwise you might be into a motor pull and re freshening. Pulling the oil pan looking for metal shavings in the pan and seeing if any damage to the internals will tell you that to an ex stent. You might never know until it's all disassembled.

 

[Nosroxs]

Well here are the photos of the head i doubt they will work.. it is dark out and flashlight wasn't to much help but none the less here they are. i did not see anything wrong in there.. oh btw don't try to start the car to turn the cams around hahaha, i guess i just need to stay away from working on cars.. Ill clean up the oil later...

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Thanks again for the help.. Don't really have the money for a new engine. well i do but don't want to . i can definitely tell the sound is coming from up in the head tho.

 

[clipto]

Ok from what I can see and yes you said it's dark it looks ok in the head I am so use to e85 and changing my oil so often I havent seen a dirty burnt head like that in awhile . On a side note watch out for them tubular exhaust manifold's those welds are cheap and crack easy, a 2g stock exhaust manifold one is good for alot. Anyways Next best thing is put your valve cover on don't torque it down to tight you don't wanna crack the valve cover, I seen it happen to many times . Next is eather drain your oil see how much shinny metal is in there and change your oil. Or pull off the pan and inspect the bottom end check for play in the crank or rods or broken parts. How long has this been making that noise? For example I had a motor I pulled out of a 91 eclipse is had 106k miles on the 6 bolt was running great no weird noises or anything, but after dissembling it I never knew anything was wrong with it. But when I did take it apart the 1g piston ring lands where broke and 2 rod bearings where broke. So sometimes you never know unless you get all up in there.

 

[Nosroxs]

I just noticed the noise yesterday i only heard it in 5th gear when i should of been in 4th gear then i heard it in 4th when i should of been in 3rd kinda like bog down "probably so the engine was quiet enough so i could hear it while driving" but now i hear it no problem in any gear and if i hold the right RPM it will stay knocking. but like i said it only happens at a certain RPM, so i don't know, but i will definitely get down there and see how hard it is gonna be to drop the oil pan and check internals and get on it as soon as i can.. dizam it i hate working on cars in the Michigan cold :-L... But one more question if it is a crank bearing or what not is it gonna really mess up my engine if i drive it?? it is my DD and i really don't want to blow the thing up if is able to be fixed...?


oh and thanks on the heads up on the mani.. i just wanted a more crisp sound to my exhuast and was told a tubular manifold would help, and has to an extent growls a little deeper but definately louder under the hood, but way hotter, i got a stock 1g and stock 2g that has a small small crack right in the top center of the 4 bolts and the tubular.. go with the stock 2g ?

 

[clipto]

Well I wish I was there to help you for one . But untill you track it down and figure out what it is then won't know if can save you. I know how it goes daily driving dsm's , if anything just drive it till it blows, or can pull motor out and refresh it at machine shop. It be few hundred dollars I mean you at 180,000k miles but I have seen higher dd dsms but who knows. Let me know if you get down and dirty under the car.

 

[Nosroxs]

will do man thanks for the help i will get back with you and the forum soon as i can.. work starts back up tomorrow so i don't know when ill have the time to check it out why couldn't this shit happen on a Friday and have the week end to work on it fawk shiot dizam .. but i will definitely cry out my problems the second i know them thanks again..

oh i forgot to add.. not to sure if its still like this but when i hold the clutch in and rev the engine i dont hear the noise or at least not as much shiot i dont know ill find out more tomorrow..

 

[90_1geclipse]

Thats sounds like a throw out bearing for trans

 

[Nosroxs]

I wish.. The sound is definitely coming from the engine. I believe the head but i am only bout 75% sure the sound is coming from the head. Here is another sound clip i just made while driving to the gas station..

Try not to laugh at me to hard.. and yes i am a noob "we all started there at one point"


update i am so sorry guys i did not realize how shitty the quality of those sound clips were.. i was converting um from m4a "my iphone" to mp3 to up load them i guess i lost a bit of quality doing that this sound clip is the original m4a and can be heard a lot better.. again my apologize..

Memo (2).m4a

 

[Ernie D]

Sounds like one of the balence shafts, thats the way my engine sounded at certain RPMs because it spun the bearing halfway out.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Clipto, fyi tubular manifolds arent all cheap with shitty welds fyi. And not all crack.

 

[Cdc1221]

Clipto, fyi tubular manifolds arent all cheap with shitty welds fyi. And not all crack.

Well the majority of dsmers buy those $100 manifolds for that 'race' look.

Bot, thats most likely rod knock. Best thing to do is pull the pan and check your rods for excessive up and down play. If all looks good, then i would check the balance shafts. They can be checked while checking the rods.

 

[Nosroxs]

Sounds like one of the balence shafts, thats the way my engine sounded at certain RPMs because it spun the bearing halfway out.

There is more then one balance shaft in a 4g63t ?

Well the majority of dsmers buy those $100 manifolds for that 'race' look.

Bot, thats most likely rod knock. Best thing to do is pull the pan and check your rods for excessive up and down play. If all looks good, then i would check the balance shafts. They can be checked while checking the rods.

your talking about the piston arm right??

 

[Cdc1221]

There is more then one balance shaft in a 4g63t ?



your talking about the piston arm right??

More commonly known as the connecting rod. And yes, there are two balance shafts, one in front and one in back

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

There is more then one balance shaft in a 4g63t ?



your talking about the piston arm right??

The oil pump has a balance shaft too.

Rod knock means the bearing for the rod has too much clearance. From millage or contamination wearing it down till there is too much clearance between the bearing and the crank journal.

 

[Ernie D]

I beleave thats more likely a balence shaft spinning a bearing instead of a rod bearing, If it was a rod bearing, you would likely have that noise at all rpms instead of just a certain rpm range.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I beleave thats more likely a balence shaft spinning a bearing instead of a rod bearing, If it was a rod bearing, you would likely have that noise at all rpms instead of just a certain rpm range.

Depends, a slight rod knock could be silenced by the increased oil pressure. You can remove the oil pan and inspect both. Really all there is left to it.
Although the fact that it isn't heard at idle does point more towards the shafts.

 

[Nosroxs]

Well thanks for the coments i still have to pull the oil pan to see whats going on in the engine but yeah any noise in the engine is bad. My question now is how pissed off should i be? Looking for a new motor pissed off or maybe getting by with being able to rebuild the engine i have pissed off?

 

[Cdc1221]

Your guess is as good as mine. Highly doubt youll squeak by without pulling the engine :/

 

[dsmgst1996]

it really sounds like its just the balancing shafts of course if your like me once your that far you end up rebuilding the whole damn thing because its already out