ending the demon bolt once and for all

[tstkl]

so i took off all the bolts on my intake manifold and removed it except for the demon bolt. (some of you might know what im talking about, but ill simplify it to the what you need to know stuff) the demon bolt is a bolt who's head broke off while i was torqueing it down, but the bolt is still sticking out some. (the thickness of the intake manifold flange, i have a dejon smim btw.) so how can i get this out? i tried vice grips but it just smooths out the threads. (thats another thing, the whole bolt was threaded because the dealer knowingly gave me the wrong bolt. i showed them the bolt i wanted to replace and they gave me a bolt that "should work" and that bolt ended up being 2mm too long.) i dont know what else i could use short of 25 inch long vice grips that i could use c clamps on to hold it. i dont have easy out bits, and i would think that it wouldnt work so well because the bolt was too long.

maybe ill just do everything i need to do to my car and tow it to the dealer and tell them to fix the problem they created.

 

[96whgsx]

Did you try one of those stud extractors, the funny looking ones? When I needed the turbo bolt extracted, this did the job perfectly. Hope it helps.

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[tstkl]

Did you try one of those stud extractors, the funny looking ones? When I needed the turbo bolt extracted, this did the job perfectly. Hope it helps.

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holy magical beanstock, that looks like it might do the trick right there....WOOOOOT if i dont have any more demon bolt problems.

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211891&highlight=demon+bolt

(funny how i finally post my problem in the "problem diagnostics" forum and get an answer in a few seconds....)

anyone know where i can get one of these btw? i cant seem to find anyone that has one. if i cant find anyone, do you think i can borrow yours? you can come over and see my car or i can pick it up and bring it back.

 

[boosted_91_tsi]

I have seen them sold many times at Sears. Picked one up myself actually.

 

[jackstandracer]

ive never used one of those but you can try a easy out, they work for me, but if you buy a cheap kit then sometimes the screw tips break ### of quality.

 

[tstkl]

I have seen them sold many times at Sears. Picked one up myself actually.

cool, ill try sears asap and see what i can find. if not i think i might just ask one of my fellow dsm'ers if i can borrow a trailor and take it to the dealer. towing costs are insane.

 

[Spoolin98]

You could always try filing an + into the end of the bolt and uing a screwdriver to back it out.

 

[Doug99RS]

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The extractor ya'll looked at earlier is decent for larger bolts and studs but the entire thing is quite large compared to the intake and exhuast to cylinder studs/bolts. The pic above has a couple of socket style extractors that fit down over the broken stud and as you turn it (in either direction) the rollers inside the extractor tighten down on the the stud. Different size studs can be extracter by one socket and it's possible to buy a smaller kit that has four different sockets.

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This second picture shows a different type that works well too. I don't like the part where it attatches to a drill but they do make just the extractor part with a hex head section on it that will allow use with a socket. These can be tapped on to the broken stud for a tighter bite.
Doug

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

They actually make an extractor that looks like a socket with some reverse thread sprial lands that can screw down and tighten on a stud. I've used them and they actually work. I have the one pictured above. They have 2 anvils. One for large bolts and one for the smaller ones. Sometimes a little large if the area is small.

By the bolt being jammed to the end of the threads it may be hung pretty hard for the first 1.4 turn and all. Heat probably won't work as the jam is sub surface.

Get a good extractor of either type and hold your breath. ]

If you do pull threads, a helicoil will fix it right up. If you have to drill, get the hole as close to center of the bolt as possible. That way if you have to helicoil, it won't be off centered.

When you have that repaired, take one of your other bolts and go to a Napa and have them hand match it. In my rural area Napa has the absolute best bolt selection.

It's bolt heaven. When I have a weird bolt of any kind, I go there. And if you work on enough stuff, you will invariably break the absolutely longest thinnest bolt there is known to man.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Doug99RS]

Sleepin' at the wheel again?

 

[tstkl]

You could always try filing an + into the end of the bolt and uing a screwdriver to back it out.

im pretty sure i wouldnt get the torque or grip needed to take this baby out doing that.

as for you other two, finally some wisemen answer my problem. too bad i couldnt really understand either of you.

i went to sears with a twenty thinking that would be enough and they had the stud extractors from the first post. 25 bucks...tomorrow after school ill try osh and if they dont have them ill go back to sears. (osh is next door to my school)

 

[Doug99RS]

as for you other two, finally some wisemen answer my problem. too bad i couldnt really understand either of you.

Es tut mir Leid. Vielleicht ich will auf Duetsche alle gesagt. Und in Zukunft haben Sie eine Frage und brauchen Sie ein bisschen Hilfe Ich Kann Sie Hilfe.
Danke Fur MEINE Zeit.

 

[tstkl]

finally realized what you were talking about. the only problem is that you didnt say the name of either tool. and the second tool is called a bolt extractor and i doubt it will work. the first one might though.

and i dont speak german either

 

[Spoolin98]

im pretty sure i wouldnt get the torque or grip needed to take this baby out doing that.

It doesn't hurt to try.

 

[Doug99RS]

If you right click over either picture it will give you the link used to insert that picture. From there you can search other kinds of extractors as well. The toold in the second picture can be used if you have a small enough head on the bolt or a large enough extractor. I've used that design with the hex head on quite a bolts where the head will no longer accept a metric or standard socket.

 

[tstkl]

If you right click over either picture it will give you the link used to insert that picture. From there you can search other kinds of extractors as well. The toold in the second picture can be used if you have a small enough head on the bolt or a large enough extractor. I've used that design with the hex head on quite a bolts where the head will no longer accept a metric or standard socket.

oooooooooo, you must have not read my first post. the bolt has no head

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Sleepin' at the wheel again?

It would appear so.

 

[Doug99RS]

And you must not have read anything I said in MY first post when I said that both of the tools shown in that post were used for broken studs. My OTHER post said that it could ALSO be used for rounded heads.

If this is too much information for you to grasp just let me know and I'll see if I can get someone with a little different approach to come in and explain why the stuff I posted can help you out.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Extracting a broken stud properly can be a challenge for even a seasoned technician.

There's several variations of broken studs. Above surface, flush and recessed. All take a different approach in the repair. And like you have, the approach is different than it would be if it was the proper length and just over torqued.

So, we write in a manner that will help in the repair. Things requiring special tools and precise techniques sometimes do not render themselves to easy understanding by a lesser qualified person.

But we do our best.

 

[tstkl]

And you must not have read anything I said in MY first post when I said that both of the tools shown in that post were used for broken studs. My OTHER post said that it could ALSO be used for rounded heads.

If this is too much information for you to grasp just let me know and I'll see if I can get someone with a little different approach to come in and explain why the stuff I posted can help you out.

sorry, i just got back from a long road trip and im really tired. dont take anything i say offensively. to me it just seems like something like that wouldnt work. the bolt itself looks like its made of aluminum. the vice grips bite into the screw really deep and just strip it basically. the metal is really soft and i dont think something like that is likely to work.

that and every time i start talking about this bolt i think about all the trouble its caused me and just get really pissed.

 

[Doug99RS]

The vise grips can be your friend in some instances because of the ease and availability. But more times than not you will clamp them down, twist and find them to be removing more and more of the bolt/stud. The vise grips have no means of tightening down the more you twist. All three of the components pictured above will do this but not all will work in every situation. You'll find that most professional mechanics have multiple styles of extractors just for this very reason.

Yesterday I used vise grips on some 10mm head bolts holding my dad's water pump in place. It was an aluminum housing that isn't subjected to lots of heat though. I was able to get them out with a little back and forth twisting followed by unscrewing it.

You may want to surf around a few other tool company sites and see all the different type of extractors available. You may find something that fits your needs a little better.
D

 

[tstkl]

The vise grips can be your friend in some instances because of the ease and availability. But more times than not you will clamp them down, twist and find them to be removing more and more of the bolt/stud. The vise grips have no means of tightening down the more you twist. All three of the components pictured above will do this but not all will work in every situation. You'll find that most professional mechanics have multiple styles of extractors just for this very reason.

Yesterday I used vise grips on some 10mm head bolts holding my dad's water pump in place. It was an aluminum housing that isn't subjected to lots of heat though. I was able to get them out with a little back and forth twisting followed by unscrewing it.

You may want to surf around a few other tool company sites and see all the different type of extractors available. You may find something that fits your needs a little better.
D

thanks for all the help. to me it seems that the first picture will work the best. the bolt is basically now shaped like an egg thanks to those vice grips, so thats why im thinking the two you suggested wont work as well. i understand, theres a time and place for everything, and if this doesnt work, i believe ill just lose it and start talking to the dealer about how they plan on preventing me from sueing them. im normally a nice guy, but when one bolt prevents me from driving my talon for about 3 months, i finally get my car running, and i go to replace that bolt and the dealer gives me the wrong bolt, i tend to get a little angry.

 

[tstkl]

ok, got a stud extractor today. didnt work. anyone in the bay area got a trailor i can borrow?

paul told me that if i used a paper gasket with a silicon lining around it, it should be able to seal without that bolt at all.

i was thinking that tapping and threading a new hole would work. anyone know how deep that hole is and what the next biggest size is? the threads are 8mm apart, so either 9mm, or if there is some british standard size that is smaller than 9mm but bigger than 8mm i can use that. maybe i should just get an 8mm tap and start drilling....

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Ok, like I said before, use one of the other holes for your depth gauge. Put something down in the hole until it bottoms out. Mark it with a magic marker at the full depth. Center punch the bolt. Take a drill bit and lay it next to your "standard" Mark the drill bit with a magic marker. Do not go beyond the mark. Work the next larger bit. Bearing in mind your depth marks. Keep going until the bolt is gone. Now, get a helicoil set. I think 8mm. Using the proper bit which Helicoil suggests, drill the hole to proper size. Take the provided tap and tap the hole. Get some locktite and put on the threads of the helicoil and insert. Once inserted just below flush, break off the little tang on the helicoil and let it sit until the Locktite hardens. If you were careful, you should be ok.

Good Luck

 

[tstkl]

Ok, like I said before, use one of the other holes for your depth gauge. Put something down in the hole until it bottoms out. Mark it with a magic marker at the full depth. Center punch the bolt. Take a drill bit and lay it next to your "standard" Mark the drill bit with a magic marker. Do not go beyond the mark. Work the next larger bit. Bearing in mind your depth marks. Keep going until the bolt is gone. Now, get a helicoil set. I think 8mm. Using the proper bit which Helicoil suggests, drill the hole to proper size. Take the provided tap and tap the hole. Get some locktite and put on the threads of the helicoil and insert. Once inserted just below flush, break off the little tang on the helicoil and let it sit until the Locktite hardens. If you were careful, you should be ok.

Good Luck

cant i just drill and tap a 9mm thread size bolt in there?