Electrical Issue- after tranny swap

[Sphinx]

well lads/lass's im stumped .. any ideas, info or " could be's" at this point would be helpful

symptom:
after being running/ driving for short amount of time rpm gauge drops to zero and coasts to a stop. cant bomb start it. starter engages and turns over. but no fire. can leave the car over night and car will fire up and drive again after 5-8+ hours of sitting. almost like if something cools down it allows electricity to do its thing again..

when its in not-running mode the dash still has power, lighter port has juice, wipers & bug juice still squirt .. just wont vroom

list of checked items:

checked fuel pump- attached power/ground to both prongs and pump starts and draws fine

changed spark plugs- so they are less than 50km of use

changed spark wire's - also 50km of use

changed coil pack - symptom still occurred

Pulled a plug during "its moment" sat er on the block and didnt see anything

Alternator - is strong and charges well

Every, and i mean every fuse has been checked & checed again or replaced

thought it also might be a battery connection, so bran new dry cell battery, new terminal connections for both positive and negative even skuffed up the copper so its clean going in to the terminal ends to be double sure

then thought it might be a ground issue and found that during the transmission swap that a motor ground was disconnected, reconnected it and problem happened again

..and then.. maybe the engine oil or gear oil was low and was a safety sensor engaging after mild use, reading low or no lubricant... so bran-bran new oil for the block and gear oil in the transmission

looked around found this ASD people have been talking about. and it doesnt exist on this 2g 420A .. where the cluster of 3 black boxes "should be" against the firewall there are only 2 not 3 WTF

if any one out there can inform me whats left to check/double check/ replace would be much ..much appreciated

p.s. that and before the wife starts to doubt my mechanical skills any more than she already does

 

[jconcepcion4g63]

when your car is "having its moment" have you checked for spark?

 

[Sphinx]

yes i should have added that, no spark

^^ updated

 

[jconcepcion4g63]

ok so no spark, you changed plugs, wires and coils so the next thing down the line is the cam/crank sensor then next down the line from that is ECU. Actually I would not jump to ecu since you have had a trans swap I would check all the wiring before going to the ecu.

You need service manual and multi-meter to properly check the sensor or I would imagine even a Logger could let you see if your cam sensor dumps on you.

 

[Sphinx]

You need service manual and multi-meter to properly check the sensor or I would imagine even a Logger could let you see if your cam sensor dumps on you.

now with doing that, i would have to check it during a "moment" would i not?

 

[jconcepcion4g63]

I would just check the sensor and see if it falls within the range the service manual states. Then heat it up with something like a hair dryer so you dont have to drive around till your car takes a dump and then test again see what happesns.

But please keep in mind your wiring. With a recent trans swap it is very likely some wiring is not properly connected.

 

[luv2rallye]

looked around found this ASD people have been talking about. and it doesnt exist on this 2g 420A .. where the cluster of 3 black boxes "should be" against the firewall there are only 2 not 3 WTF

Your engine would never run w/o the ASD relay and you do have one on firewall. You only have the fuel pump and ASD relays there because the third one is only present for an auto tranny.

Your problem does sound like a tough one though. How many minutes before this problem happens after a cold start?

What are the last things you did on the engine before this started happening?

Spark is generated using the coil, CAS, CPS, ECU, plugs, wiring so it must be one of those. Check wiring and connectors first.

Then next time it happens (keep voltmeter with you in car if you go somewhere) check for voltage on the ASD relay's wires (with relay plugged in, key on, engine not spinning). Black/white and red/black should always have +12v even with key off. With key on, black/red (which supplies power to all engine stuff) should have +12v if relay and ECU are working. Red/white with key on should be near 0v - if not your ECU is not turning the ASD relay on and it is the problem (probably internal leaking capacitors - common problem and is my guess).

You may have to pierce through insulation to get at the wires. If you just can't get at the wires, you can unplug the ASD and measure voltage on the harness pins - the voltages should be as I state except for the black/red which is the relay's output but now it's disconnected so will be 0. In fact now that I think of it, to save time just unplug the ASD when problem occurs and test those pins right away (with key on).

 

[Sphinx]

So, i have ordered in a new Fuel Pump Relay, and it finally got there. proceeded to swap it out, and now have come to yet another "moment" so that eliminates the FPR

jconcepcion4g63 : i pulled all the plugs and tested them all each cylinder does not have spark, and there is pressure in the fuel rail. so this should resolve the earlier discussion of weather or not it is a spark or fuel issue.

luv2rallye: there is no definitive time line as to where or when the car will turn off from cold start, however as i have said before the car requires a 'cool down time' in order for it to start again. this said cool down time does seem to fluctuate with the actual outside temperature. subzero temp useally about 1h-1.45h where if its in the + can take up to 8h/over night.

the car is currently having a moment, started it up this morning and it idoled for about 20 min then turned off on its own. i immediately went out side and it did start up again right away. however i then turned it off and went back in side for no longer than 20-30 minutes to return to the car and it will not start. it has not been about 8h now for cool down period and it still yet will turn on.
as for the volt meter i am searching for one as this has been posted

what does CPS & CAS represent?

i have acquired a voltmeter and tested the ASD relay. in the (OFF pisition) Red/Blk & Blk/Wht both had 12v+ where the Red/White (with key on/accessory position) also still had 12V so does this mean the ECU has a capacitor leaking. or the ASD relay has a leek. should i replace the relay or the ecu?.. that is the question

 

[luv2rallye]

the Red/White (with key on/accessory position) also still had 12V so does this mean the ECU has a capacitor leaking. or the ASD relay has a leek. should i replace the relay or the ecu?.. that is the question

With the key to On position (not accessory position), the red/white should have 0v to turn the ASD relay on. The ECU does this so either the ECU has a problem or some other ECU input is not correct for the ECU to turn the ASD on. It would be advisable to look inside the ECU for leaking caps, burnt foil traces, rotten egg smell, burnt components, etc.

 

[Sphinx]

ill go out n double check. give me a couple shakes.

with the key in the (On) position it still reads 12v+

now im removing the ecu to check for loose wires( noticed ecu could be loose from reading other thread) and or burnt components

i removed the ecu and took it apart to find that the entire void inside the ecu is full and i mean full of this gel/silicone like material so i can not see through it and inspect it to see if there is any leeking or blown/burnt componants. so today im off to get a few new ecu's from local scrap yards.

second and last question could it be a faulty knock sensor ?

any additional help would be appriciated.

i have looked over the other electrical thread and it seems to have some problems that overlap with mine and some i have that are completely on there own.