e85 or bigger turbo?

[Cadmonkey]

iv been researching what it takes to properly run e85. it seems like a good idea, but also very complicated. i think i know what is needed as far as "hardwear" goes. bigger injectors, ss fuel lines, eprom, EMS or DSMlink, a good tune, but the price tag adds up quick, exspecialy since i have never tuned my ecm before. i honestly dont think i have the experiance to run e85 yet and the more i research the more i think its too big of a task for the advantages id recieve on my set-up. there are a few guys where i live who have tuned with EMS and DSMlink, but thats another $250 right there. another main issue for me running e85 is avalibility. here in town its at every gas station. but what if i go out of town. or move to a new city with less avalibilty, do i have to re-tune from e85 to 91 before i switch from one to the other?

I guess my main question is would it be more cost effective and or easier just to upgrade the turbo, injectors, and get dsmlink, get a good tune, and call it a day?

reguardless of what I do, I know I need the following:
fmic
ecmlink v3 lite or better
larger injectors
wideband 02

all my mods are in my profile. any help sorting out this issue would help out a bunch

 

[gusu]

How hard is E85 to find where you live?

 

[richard33]

I think you should switch over to e85 first. You can probably hang on to the stock side mount and ditch the SS fuel lines if you're on a budget. A 16g e85 is a great street car. Once you start getting bigger turbos it gets more expensive and less reliable.

 

[3kgt2nv]

e85 availability is the first thing to check. in my area its like a 75 mile + drive to get it so its not worth it for me.

the biggest problem is you have to switch everything over you dont want to skip the ss fuel lines to save $$$.

if you cant do it all right now wait till you can. e85 is very hydroscopic and will quickly rust the stock steel lines out causing leaks.

 

[richard33]

e85 availability is the first thing to check. in my area its like a 75 mile + drive to get it so its not worth it for me.

the biggest problem is you have to switch everything over you dont want to skip the ss fuel lines to save $$$.

if you cant do it all right now wait till you can. e85 is very hydroscopic and will quickly rust the stock steel lines out causing leaks.

have you ever seen e85 rust through a stock fuel line? I have stock fuel lines and I would say its working out well so far.


another main issue for me running e85 is avalibility. here in town its at every gas station. but what if i go out of town. or move to a new city with less avalibilty, do i have to re-tune from e85 to 91 before i switch from one to the other?

he says right here its available.

 

[3kgt2nv]

yes i have seen it thru stock lines on other cars, but even if it doesnt rust thru it still can absorb more water than you would want in your fuel.

just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean he shouldn't do the set up properly. thats like the people that say they turn the boost up to 20 pounds on stock injectors and dont have any problems so its fine.

i may be new on this forum but have been into cars for 15 years and awd turbo mitsubishi's for the last 8


and i just looked at his post again. i thought he said it wasn't avail so that is my bad

 

[skatershawn]

If its readily available.. tune for e85!!
Get some 850cc injectors, and dont worry about the fuel lines.. its proven time and time again that it isn't completely necessary. I Would however run e85 a a tank or 2 change the fuel filter, then after another few tanks, change it again but with a metal filter! and pull the injectors and clean them with SeaFoam! You already have a rewired 255 fuel pump.. so thats good!

You will like it i promise! Plus if you get a bigger turbo, you would need bigger injector anyway!
So save the money and get close to the same results!

As For 3kgt2nv.. if you've been into cars for the past 15 years, wouldn't you know that Ethanol has been around for quite some time.. more that 30 years in brazil and some parts of the U.S.
They have make fuel systems for decades to withstand high ethanol blends! Its call regulations, and most companies wont produce something that is JUST at the peak of withstanding the high blends most commonly used... they usually extend past the regulations to insure there are no failures!

I work in QC department, and most any company dealing with any product will do this.

 

[3kgt2nv]

well i guess im the minority about the fuel lines so go for it.

 

[BLINKY619]

not to mention you get less mpg.... you run out of gas quicker...

 

[MY1GDSM]

Well to start off...
I had, just wrote a rather large explanation of everything and broke down what you said...
but, it just got wiped out with one wrong key stroke

I'll see if I can help you out later(since I'm alittle pissed ATM) if someone else don't chime in before me that has First hand Experience with E85 like me as well

Please don't just blindly listen to people All the e85 threads seem to have people that have these I heard from my Buddy's brother that ran it once responses

I'd like to clear this up though

e85 availability is the first thing to check. in my area its like a 75 mile + drive to get it so its not worth it for me.

So obviously you don't have first hand experience with it

the biggest problem is you have to switch everything over you dont want to skip the ss fuel lines to save $$$.

NO YOU DO NOT while it would be advisable it a Huge Hp situation where you gonna need something larger then -6an line theirs no reason I see why the OP would need to...

if you cant do it all right now wait till you can. e85 is very hydroscopic and will quickly rust the stock steel lines out causing leaks.

I've ran E85 an ALL stock lines for about 3-4 years minus the return line to my FPR and it has yet to happen

IT is advisable to change out you fuel filter a few times because ethanol will clean out all the gunk left by Gas..

Now while I've never had Black goo problems like some others, I can say theirs no reason to pull your injectors like alot of people say. just run a tank of pump 92 every once an a while an if you have any Black goo problems it should take care of it...

Also Anyone planing to run e85 It's adviceable to go with at least a 1000cc+ Injector

 

[richard33]

yes i have seen it thru stock lines on other cars, but even if it doesnt rust thru it still can absorb more water than you would want in your fuel.

just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean he shouldn't do the set up properly. thats like the people that say they turn the boost up to 20 pounds on stock injectors and dont have any problems so its fine.

i may be new on this forum but have been into cars for 15 years and awd turbo mitsubishi's for the last 8


and i just looked at his post again. i thought he said it wasn't avail so that is my bad

I dont know a guy who has done it or a buddys friend, this is my setup right now. I used the stock lines to make 500+ whp, make 10 sec passes, and trap 138 all on e85. If he wants to do SS lines, then go for it! But does he have to? no.

not to mention you get less mpg.... you run out of gas quicker...

If you want MPG, get a civic or something. We are talking about going fast, not fuel economy.

 

[3kgt2nv]

So obviously you don't have first hand experience with it

so because i dont personally run it i obviously dont know what im talking about.

and nobody said anything about running larger tha -6 lines. i just said to swap them to ss lines.

what it all comes down to is doing something the best way possible and doing it good enough.

most people dont even bother to change to viton orings for the injectors as the e85 can dissolve the stock injector orings but hey if it works why bother

 

[richard33]

so because i dont personally run it i obviously dont know what im talking about.

and nobody said anything about running larger tha -6 lines. i just said to swap them to ss lines.

what it all comes down to is doing something the best way possible and doing it good enough.

most people dont even bother to change to viton orings for the injectors as the e85 can dissolve the stock injector orings but hey if it works why bother

ya may know what you're talking about but you're arguing with people who run e85 in their cars and perform. It's kind of hard to debate the issue when my car has never had any of these problems you've mentioned and has been on e85 for years.

 

[3kgt2nv]

im not trying to argue. honestly the fuel lines in this car could be zinc coated or something to prevent them from rusting to crap with e85. i was trying to help him make an informed decision as far as what he should look at. and really if the 50 to 75 bucks it would cost to do the fuel lines are a make or break item for swapping i would say bigger turbo with new tune would be better for him anyway.


im a big believer in when doing upgrades or repairs to go kinda overkill to know its not going to be an issue down the road.

another option he didnt even mention that could gain just as much would be pump gas with a meth injection kit and up the boost

 

[dsm-onster]

An informed decision would be not to worry about the fuel lines because they are proven to handle ethanol fine. That is what the information all over this forum says. And I'll also throw my personal experience into this thread concerning that as well.

Over kill? Sure. But not because of rust. That's not informed. Because the fuel lines may be too small for a later astronomical goal. . . . . . .However, I doubt the OP will ever want or ever be able to achieve over 700whp with ethanol in the next 3 years.

 

[MY1GDSM]

so because i dont personally run it i obviously dont know what im talking about.

No...

But, things in Reuters are never quite right are they?

and nobody said anything about running larger tha -6 lines. i just said to swap them to ss lines.

Umm yeah someone did, I did

An I said it because that's roughly the size of our stock lines so if I Myself Were replacing them I would go -8an or larger so it would actually BE an upgrade.

Also, just to clarify SS Braided lines aren't Stainless Inside... So in all reality if you didn't make informed decision purchasing them you could end up with something Less resistant to Ethanol.

what it all comes down to is doing something the best way possible and doing it good enough.

No it doesn't... . Imo

Theirs doing what is needed and theirs going all out. A large % of the people on this board a not exactly on a Big budget(look at what the age demographic is these days)

Main people that would be Doing it "the best way possible" aren't going to be in here asking how to do any of this anyway or atleas not in this manner.

most people dont even bother to change to viton orings for the injectors as the e85 can dissolve the stock injector orings but hey if it works why bother

That Doesn't make since you WILL be replacing the injectors if you running E85. An almost every injector out their comes with replacement O-rings most of which are Viton usually

I suppose next things that "Should Be" at the rate your going would be the Valve stem seals should be Viton as well? Also should he have SS valves?

Should We make a list of Everything At All possible that could fail?

Or actually address some other questions being asked?

 

[3kgt2nv]

No...

But, things in Reuters are never quite right are they?

so then because i personally dont have any of the parts i have been doing research on this forum its all bs till someone who runs it tells me its fine. ok

Also, just to clarify SS Braided lines aren't Stainless Inside... So in all reality if you didn't make informed decision purchasing them you could end up with something Less resistant to Ethanol.

ss braided was never mentioned by the op or me. you just assumed that was what was ment. personally to pay 100 bucks for a 20 ft length of ss braided i would rather bend custom ss hard line. which is what i figured he ment since he never said ss braided. and as far as braided lines go you can get nylon braided hose safe for e85 for cheaper than stainless. but no one on here said that so i obviously dont know what im talking about

No it doesn't... . Imo

Theirs doing what is needed and theirs going all out. A large % of the people on this board a not exactly on a Big budget(look at what the age demographic is these days)

Main people that would be Doing it "the best way possible" aren't going to be in here asking how to do any of this anyway or atleas not in this manner.

thats not totally true. im new to dsm's but have been into cars for 15 years. i like to ask questions simply because every platform is different and there might be something unexpected he doesnt know needs to be changed.

That Doesn't make since you WILL be replacing the injectors if you running E85. An almost every injector out their comes with replacement O-rings most of which are Viton usually

I suppose next things that "Should Be" at the rate your going would be the Valve stem seals should be Viton as well? Also should he have SS valves?

Should We make a list of Everything At All possible that could fail?

Or actually address some other questions being asked?

i guess dsm guys are lucky that all your injectors come set with viton orings since every set of injectors i have ever bought they were extra or had to be picked up from elsewhere.

should we list everything. personally i would like to since he asked what he was getting into but it doesnt matter i guess.

since some people working on a budget have put together e85 cars at a minimal cost and have been good its obviously not important to be properly prepaired for what going to e85 might involve.

to the op. sorry for trying to help. its obvious that since im new on this forum im not able to be informed and helpful, ill stop posting now since its obvious im wrong about everything. good luck if you try to do the conversion.

 

[schroder]

One thing I dont see mentioned (and this is for future reference to open up your fuel lines...I know its not required now, but to help with the future...) is that running full AN lines tank to rail and back is not the "proper" way to run your fuel lines. It can be done, has been done, and works successfully...but for less than what you would spend for that, you can also just get larger sized tubing and bend it to your needs. The hard lines do not run the risk of any type of movement or rubbing, and also don't have rubber hose running under your car. Rubber WILL eventually harden, and WILL have to be replaced. There are other options out there now, such as teflon/stainless lines instead of stainless...but it isn't usually what is provided. Again, either can be run, but if your car is driven more than to the track and back, I would highly recommend solid lines.

 

[dsm-onster]

Great advice! I've been looking at solid lines too. And yes, its far more affordable! There IS more vibrational movement hard fastened to say a non-balance-shaft car. And yes vibration does more damage with hardlines because the transeferance of vibration down a metal tube is greater than a rubber tube. But isolating the metal from the frame completely negates that potential con.

to the op. sorry for trying to help. its obvious that since im new on this forum im not able to be informed and helpful, ill stop posting now since its obvious im wrong about everything. good luck if you try to do the conversion.

As of now, that probably is the best course for you to take in this and near future threads. Learn a bit more about the platform, then your intelligence will better mesh with your knowledge to contribute wise assistance.