Dual Wallys : Look what i made today :)

[turboglenn]

Here's some pics of my long awaited (by me anyway) Dual 255 intank parallel pump setup. I was going to use AN fittings at the tank cover, but it was easier in several ways to just TIG-braze in new "hard lines" and fit aeroquip stuff from there.

I went to the junk yard and found the hanger just sitting on the hood of the only ecluipse there and it was an NT 2g ( i was ready to pull the pump and other parts i was after but they were either laying around the car or gone) and then on the way back in i found a strut tower brace marked "eclipse 95" not sure if it's front or rear (guessing rear) But i'll toss it on tomorro when i i install the dual pump setup.

Right now each pump feeds from a -6 into a home made distribution block ( its ugly cause i didn't want to go to my parent house at 3 am last night to use the mill )

the Outlet is also -6 because my fuelab fileter is -6 aong with my rail.. I was actually going to change it all to -8 and use the 6 for the return but they didn't have enough -8 line and i wasn't about to wait to order it, and after a few calls i was assured that one -6 would feed my motor plenty for my goals of low to mid 400's on turbo and then up to 525 on laughing gas (the whole system can easily be upgraded to -8 feed -6 return fi i find that it won't hadn't the power levels, but i doubt that's going to happen really

I also chose the blue "push lock" lines and fittins because it's easier to work with and the line and fittings for it are a bit less expensive I also noticed that the ID of the blue stuff was larger compared to the black SSbraided stuff when comparing units in the same size designation(i.e. -6 in blue was 10mm ID... the ID on the braided -6 stuff was lucky to push 9,, pulling on the calipers to stretch it) I was also told that I should use it instead when i mentioned running E85, the material is suposedly better suited for running methanol (and other alcohols). I was told the regular braided stuff is said to break down over time where this wont

Right now there's one 255 and one stock pump in it (for mock up and assembly) and it still needs the last wires soldered and insulated and it's ready to go.. Tomorrow i just need to pull my current hanger, swap the 255 from it to this hanger and drop this one in...then it's just a matter of routing the fuel line and trimmming the excess as my filter is already setup with a -6 inlet (Man, 2 wallys is realy gonna make one ewicked "whine" i bet)

I haven't even got it in my car yet and already have requests to buld 2 for local DSM'ers and one for a local guy with a blower powered Ws6 firebird (all wanting to go E85 after seeingthe change itmade in my car too ) One DSM guy paid upfront when i quoted the price on the hanger alone and then said, run the whwole thing to the rail too

Without further procrastination here's da pics!!!!!!! (i'm very rpud of how it came out, and wont' change a thing on the next three that are ordered..plus i can build and sell the whole thing from hanger to rail for about the same as the the onlly dual pump hanger i've been able to find on the net ( and i bet mine won't leak like that aluminum on either )

Let me kow what you guys/gals think

 

[turboglenn]

This was one of the last 4 things o the list before dynoe tuning and racingit this year
the list is:

1.) Dual 255's = DONE!

2.)New turbo (should be paid for this week)

3.) Nitrous installed..waiting on ONE wet fogger nozzle, the line from fuel solenoid to nozzle, and a few jets! And i can slap it back in ( had it in a while back, but never really used it and removed the bottle to make a space to mount my meth injection pump and resevior)

4.) NEw longer wheel studs and a fresh set of slicks (they were out of metric extended studs at the perormace shop today - it's a circle track shop but they have all the coool toys )

Ooops # 5.) A trailer and something to pull it just in case

Can anyone tell me anything about that strut tower brace...brand..front rear...junk etc...) it was way too damn cold to do much outside today.,...high of 18*

 

[tkelly27]

It's going to sound like this
<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0cVlTeIATBs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0cVlTeIATBs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>

 

[turboglenn]

Hahahahha... It will sound exactly like that until the blinker is on ...then it wil pulse and be twice as bad

 

[Killa_dsm]

It's going to sound like this
<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0cVlTeIATBs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0cVlTeIATBs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! That made my night!!!

And to turboglenn that setup looks badass! Great work.

 

[Weapon-X]

That's a front strut tower bar for sure.

Not sure on a specific brand, but it just looks like your normal run of the mill E-bay bar.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

thats EXACTLY how mine's setup (except i have braided/an lines)!
Goes to show you dont have to pay 600 bucks for functionality.

 

[Black_Bullet]

It's going to sound like this
<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0cVlTeIATBs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0cVlTeIATBs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>

Mines already sounds like that and I only have one. WTF

 

[andy4g63]

Good job, Glenn. Everything looks perfect. The only thing, that I am not so sure, is that Y-block there. Not visible inside. Plus there is a reason, that these Y blocks cost so much money[ $70-90], I think...

 

[gixrman]

Very nice glenn, keep the fab work coming!!

 

[DougR]

Wheres those check valves, homie.

 

[turboglenn]

Well, there's no check valves because i ran out of budget...

But, now i have the issue of not being able to get any less than 42psi fuel pressure with vacum or without and the screw turned all the way out.. Guess it's time to either run a larger return line from the AFPR or see if just opeing the return line in the fuel pump hanger will make any difference...

I know this is common on AWD's, but i've neve heard of it happenin on a FWD before....

OH well, another day, another wrench turned i guess

I was getting some really weird lean spots though too.. I was able to crank the FP to 80PSI at idle though sop i think there's plenty of fuel getting there, but i need to put my hand pump back together andd see what it's doing under boost.....

Either that or i'm just putting a check valve in one side and having it only come on when i start to run out of fuel ( i can program it to in the haltech software for up to 3 or 4 additional pumps )

 

[MaNGiNa24]

Well, there's no check valves because i ran out of budget...

But, now i have the issue of not being able to get any less than 42psi fuel pressure with vacum or without and the screw turned all the way out.. Guess it's time to either run a larger return line from the AFPR or see if just opeing the return line in the fuel pump hanger will make any difference...

I know this is common on AWD's, but i've neve heard of it happenin on a FWD before....

OH well, another day, another wrench turned i guess

I was getting some really weird lean spots though too.. I was able to crank the FP to 80PSI at idle though sop i think there's plenty of fuel getting there, but i need to put my hand pump back together andd see what it's doing under boost.....

Either that or i'm just putting a check valve in one side and having it only come on when i start to run out of fuel ( i can program it to in the haltech software for up to 3 or 4 additional pumps )

Remember, pressure & flow are two separate items all together.

If the hoses are too small or if there is a kink in your system (y block) your pressure will spike tremendously, but you'll be pushing much less volume. Just because the pressure is incredibly high doesn't mean your flowing as much as you potentially could.

 

[turboglenn]

Remember, pressure & flow are two separate items all together.

If the hoses are too small or if there is a kink in your system (y block) your pressure will spike tremendously, but you'll be pushing much less volume. Just because the pressure is incredibly high doesn't mean your flowing as much as you potentially could.

Well, the lean conidtion i mentioed ealier was due to an electrical fault (temp sensor wire broke) and i had only fixed it temporarily on the way home by turing the global knob down a tad over 30%... Once the coolant temp sensor was fixed the areas underboost went back into the 11's where they should be (thank god, i'd rather have a rich idle than lean wide open )

^^that was an edit... with that being said... here's where i started the first time

i had been reading, talking, measuring lengths and counting fittings to plan every curve, bend and connetction for over a month before i ever even bought a part, the Y block i made just because it was so simple and they charge 30 bucks for one online and 54 dollars locally ( so i duplicated the inside demensions of my friends NOS "Y" block through measuring the volume with drill bits and dowels...my angle may be a little bit off from the NOS part, but i'm confident the distribution block is good to go ( i'm willing to throw my friends NOS unit on tomorrow and see, but he has the same high base FP issue as well..

I know on the AWD like his, you just drill that crossover tube out and the pressure drops (but don't go too large) On mine i'm thinking that the return lien that;s built ito the pump hanger is maybe a bit to small..

With that all said... here's the parts specs

I have an aeromotive AFPR with -6 running from the rail to it, then it has a barbed fitting and ties back into the stock return the rest of the way to the tank... The pics above show the pumps and lines, but the lines go to a fuelab fuel filer with a SS meh element, with both a -6 inlet and a -6 outlet going to a -6 fitting on the rail.

The fuel hose is not kinked anywhere and the sharpest bends are only about 45* over a 4 inch spread I spent probably 2 extra hours perfecting where the Y sat and how the main line tied into it., then it's straight to the firewall where it turns upwards 90* over a long spread (left soe extra hose on there to allow the filer to easily be removed from the firewall and serviced, but there's definitely no kinks or any spots where the feed line is pinched ( i only know because i'm really picky and spent a good bit of time on that as well )

It's so easy to get to a fuel pump and hager on a 2g car I think i'l just pull the hanger up an inch or so, then pull the ruber return line at the hanger and place it where it can dump into the tank bypassing the little return line jus to see what it does. If that brings the pressure under control again i'll just finish pulling the hanger, drill the tin reurn out and make a larger return passage using the OEM feed line connected to the -6 coming off the AFPR.. It would at least be one starting step to upgrading the retun line anyway

 

[turboglenn]

UPDATE:

Althought the lean condition i was experiencing was easily fixxed when it was things that were wrong with the ECU, it still is weird... It has high, high fuel pressure at idle, with vacume it's 45 -50 dependnding on how cold it gets (when it's warmer i can get as low as 42 w/ vacume) But it's rich from idle to 0 vac/0 boost, then through the first few thousand RPM's of boost build up (say 2500 -4000 RPM ) it's going lean even with 6 - 10% fuel added in an area that was around 11.8 and is now 13.5 ~14.0:1 ( bot not registering knock) the when she hits full boost the previous mid to high 11 AFR turns into a pegged 10:1 (richest the AEM UEGOreads) So i'm puzzled about the lean spot being in the middle of things (first few psi)... It could be that initial spike in fuel presure due to an over-run return line puts a load on the wallys causing them to lose flow untill the pulsewidths get high enough for the return line to become less of retriction with greater consumption of fuel .

My thoughts are that even if you do double or increase volume by 50 - 75%, as long as there's no increase in pressure the injectors should act the same on opening and closing, and flow the same amount of fuel per ms of injection time. But if you're adding roughly 30% more base fuel at idle WITH vacume..how much are you really adding when the boost kicks up along with flow until the flow deminishes due to excess pressure

So my first priority is to get the BFP to be able to drop down at least 5lbs more than it would under 22 inch grams of mercury (forget the little abbreviation ) but there is the one variable i always wondered about when i started this, and that is the fact that one wally is at least 7 years newer than the the other and could be lossing flow wore than the new one. and I've still not found any sort of descriptive or scientificly documented posts on the solving of these issues, or even any 1st hand experiencessaying "i used "X" part placed here and it's running great again"

Actually MaNgINa24 raised a point that would act exactly as i'm experiencing, it may just be happening for different reasons I have double checked today for kinks... So if a larger return by using stock feed lines from the -6 that comes off the AFPR to slightly larger return tube don't get the results i want I will try the the Y from my buddies car. I just can't see anything worse than a slight turbulance in the fuel flow with the dimensions of the inside of the Y being so close to NOS's part