1G Dsmlink Elevated Injector duty .... update

[gsxeclipse102]

Im trying to understand whats going on here for my own knowledge. Im a tech for a living but we dont get to tune the cars so im always looking to learn

 

[SasaniFab]

Without more information, I can't really help you. Nobody can. There's a reason we're always bitching at people to use the ECMlink template. It provides critical information that will affect the overall tune. Without it, giving advice is useless.

Also, that log doesn't have a single good pull in the entire thing. Even if the car was leaning out up top, you wouldn't be able to tell from that log. Go log a legit 3rd gear pull.

I'd be willing to bet that 255 (if that's in fact the pump you're on) is working pretty hard. With proper fuel supply, the IDCs on 1650s will definitely not be over 100%. They DEFINITELY should not be over 100% on pump or race gas under 20 pounds of boost. Those are not getting enough fuel. It could a pump issue, or something else fuel related causing restricted pressure and/or flow.

Go start a new thread in the ECMlink tuning sub-forum and use the template provided.

I wanted to clarify guys, that I'm on a single walbro 255 with pte 1000 injectors. I checked the motor for boost leaks and its holds beautifully. It's just this damn idc number. The only thing that's different that was changed was the cam position sensor went bad and was replaced.

 

[SasaniFab]

I have a walbro 450 in another hanger and 2 other sets of injectors. Fic high z 1650 and fic 1250 blue max. Both brand new.

 

[gsxeclipse102]

Heres what i would do. Put the 450 back in. Lower the boost to 15psi and turn off the meth injection. Get one idle log and one 3rd gear pull.

Lets get a base tune/idea of whats going on

 

[SasaniFab]

No matter what change I make the car at idle floats around 16-20% and something is wrong with that

 

[SasaniFab]

Heres what i would do. Put the 450 back in. Lower the boost to 15psi and turn off the meth injection. Get one idle log and one 3rd gear pull.

Lets get a base tune/idea of whats going on

I'm going to pull the entire rewire apart and look for Loose connections. I'm starting to feel like I'm getting a weak connection at the pump. Maybe I should turn the pump on and check the voltage getting to the pump

 

[91talonts1]

^ I still say this could be a big issue. I checked my logs and my voltage never drops below 13.7 all the way to 8500. Your voltage is pretty much plummeting from the time you floor it to the time you let off, and they aren't long pulls. You're getting less voltage than the battery itself should have. Your pump can't be seeing the amperage it needs.

 

[GST with PSI]

My understanding(please correct me if im wrong) is that after a lot of knock the car starts to use the minoctane table which is a much richer afr. This in turn would cause the injector duty to increase to try to richen up mixture and stop knocking. I was thinking maybe the knock is from high timing (base setting being off) also high airflowperrev at idle meaning the whole sd table is off

You're correct on the operating principal of the minoct table. But, even at 9.3 AFR (minoct target) he still should not be seeing over 100% IDCs. We're all learning, myself included. Sometimes my posts come across the wrong way, but for the most part I don't mean them to

I learned most of what I know from the information and guys here on the forums, so let me know if something I say isn't clear.




@amsrn13 This is a good example of why we ask you to fill out the ECMlink template when asking for help with tuning advice. I have no idea how your car is set up, and not to sound like a dick, but really have no interest in making 20 posts trying to find out.

I have no issues helping if you put forth the effort and help me help you. There are too many things unknown to me to be able to effectively help you anyways. Follow the guidance in my previous post and you'll be more likely to get better help with your issue.

 

[SasaniFab]

You're correct on the operating principal of the minoct table. But, even at 9.3 AFR (minoct target) he still should not be seeing over 100% IDCs. We're all learning, myself included. Sometimes my posts come across the wrong way, but for the most part I don't mean them to

I learned most of what I know from the information and guys here on the forums, so let me know if something I say isn't clear.




@amsrn13 This is a good example of why we ask you to fill out the ECMlink template when asking for help with tuning advice. I have no idea how your car is set up, and not to sound like a dick, but really have no interest in making 20 posts trying to find out.

I have no issues helping if you put forth the effort and help me help you. There are too many things unknown to me to be able to effectively help you anyways. Follow the guidance in my previous post and you'll be more likely to get better help with your issue.

The reason i didn't set up the template was I didn't perceive this as a tuning issue per say. When you you meantioned that the idc is a calculated number

^ I still say this could be a big issue. I checked my logs and my voltage never drops below 13.7 all the way to 8500. Your voltage is pretty much plummeting from the time you floor it to the time you let off, and they aren't long pulls. You're getting less voltage than the battery itself should have. Your pump can't be seeing the amperage it needs.

I actually had the car connected to a 12v supply to see if that would improve the issue. It made no change even at 14.1v

 

[SasaniFab]

I sent an email to ecmlink, maybe they have an idea on what could be wrong

 

[GST with PSI]

When you you meantioned that the idc is a calculated number

Yeah, it's calculated, but not in the same sense that say, airflow is. The ECU knows how long the injector is commanded on and off, because it literally runs the drivers. So, if the IDC is high, it means the injector is being commanded on at whatever the IDC is. Theres no magic to it. You need to find the root cause of the high IDCs.

Regarding the template, it helps others help you troubleshoot more effectively whether it's a tuning issue or not.

 

[SasaniFab]

Yeah, it's calculated, but not in the same sense that say, airflow is. The ECU knows how long the injector is commanded on and off, because it literally runs the drivers. So, if the IDC is high, it means the injector is being commanded on at whatever the IDC is. Theres no magic to it. You need to find the root cause of the high IDCs.

Regarding the template, it helps others help you troubleshoot more effectively whether it's a tuning issue or not.

Sorry I forgot to finish that statement as the website was acting funny. You commented on how you didnt agree with biglady that the number although calculated shouldnt be ignored. Im starting to believe my issue has something to due with the ecu or cas sensor. When I attempted to start the new motor the cas which was good when i removed it was magically broken. If you look at the log the injon is static?This value should always be fluctuating. I need to find out what would cause that. Its almost like the injectors arent pulsing correctly? Doesnt the cas sensor tell the injectors when to fire in relation to the position of the cam? Its almost like the injectors are stuck opening at a set value......Causing my injectors to work harder in all conditions?

 

[SasaniFab]

Could whatever caused my cas sensor to get damaged messed up my injector driver?

 

[SasaniFab]

I need to figure out what INJON means....... does that mean the injector is opening every 24 ms and not changing based on the variable set in the ecm. Watching my idle on my old log the injon would go up and down based on engine load etc

 

[gsxeclipse102]

https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/dsmlinkloggableparams

 

[SasaniFab]

https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/dsmlinkloggableparams

I have an update for you guys as I spoke to someone at ecmlink. The data I am getting is currupt. Apparently there is a way to fix it but he told me to try something first. I need to either remove or add to the captured values to reset the corrupt data. I will let you know how it works out. Im relieved that there is nothing mechanically wrong with my car. It seems that because injon is reading properly is causing my injduty to be elevated

 

[SasaniFab]

I just wanted to say that the guys at ecmlink rock and responded to my email immediately. Companies who support their product in every facet

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Tom and Dave @Ecmtuning ROCK.

 

[SasaniFab]

Nice guys.....people I don't mind giving my money to

 

[SasaniFab]

I want to close with a final update. I'm at the shop and the fix tom recommended fixed the issue. If your injector duty for some reason is not in line with your setup meaning it's super high and you can't explain it.... The first thing to do is make sure your logging InjOn, this number does NOT remain static, the number will fluctuate depending on engine load etc. To fix this turn the engine off and go into captured values with the ignition on obviously. Remove a few logging parameters, and Restart the car. You can then turn the car off again and add whatever you removed from the captured values. This technique fixed my issue and although rare , you never
Know.