DSM Link vs. SAFC/Wideband

[FullyBuiltDSM]

so right now i have an safc2 and an ngk wideband. ive been debating whether or not i should use this method of tuning or if i should go with a dsm link. i dont know much about the dsm link, i know what it does and i need a lap top obviously but what else will i need if i go in that direction. What would your choice be between the dsm link or the safc with the wideband? why?

 

[Spooling99]

You should def go with DSMlink. It is very user friendly. Has many more options and alot more tuning ability then your SAFCII... They even have there own forum to help you along the way. Good Luck

-ADAM-

 

[Budget90GST]

The only factor to consider here is money. SAFC is a great tuning tool but does not come close to DSMLINK in features and functionality. SAFC can be had for about $200 + $100 for a pocketlogger and you're set. DSMLINK requires a laptop ($100 - $1000), e-prom socketed ecu ($200 - $400) and of course DSMLINK ($500 - $600). Well worth it though if you can afford it...

 

[talondude4]

your car is a 93 so therefore you probly don't have a eprom ecu.

 

[FullyBuiltDSM]

what years had eprom ecu's 95 and up?how much do they go for and whast eprom even stand for?

 

[FourG63 97GST]

dude, just go to the dsmlink, homepage, it will give you many reasons why
http://dsmlink.com/

I had an AFCII and wideband, now I have dsmlink and wibeband, go figure, you cant do much with a wideband if you can log it. unless u plan on lookin at it constantly and try to remember what RPMs you were at. Plus you get some much info from dsmlink, there's more to tuning than adding and takin away fuel

 

[Apeximprt2nr]

Yeah definitly go with the DSM link. You won't regret it. Keep the wideband though. Even though DSMlink measures A/F ratio it still uses the stock narrowband. It's actually pretty close but never exact compared to the wideband. DSM link is worth the money.

 

[justin0469]

Wideband is something you need whether you have SAFC or DSMlink. I know you did not mention this but I would highly recommend ECU+ over DSMlink, especially for those of you that would need to buy an EPROM ECU to run DSMlink because ECU+ doesnt need it. It can even do more then DSMlink can currently.

 

[flacopower]

Wideband is something you need whether you have SAFC or DSMlink. I know you did not mention this but I would highly recommend ECU+ over DSMlink, especially for those of you that would need to buy an EPROM ECU to run DSMlink because ECU+ doesnt need it. It can even do more then DSMlink can currently.

this is the first time that i hear someone recommend ecu+ over dsmlink.. can you modify timing with ecu+? what other features does it have? i have a 99 so it would be nice to not have to drop a couple hundred on an eprom ecu

 

[justin0469]

Yes you can modify timing. It currently can do just as much as DSMlink (maybe more, im not up with DSMlinks complete capabilities) with the exception of raising the rev limiter because it is all external of the ECU. It can also directly interface with GM MAF so you dont need a translator, DSMlink cant do that. As well as reading both sides, DSMlink does have excellent support but I have never had a better experience with any customer service then I have with ECU+.
http://www.ecuplus.com/features.htm
Look there for a list of features. Within a few weeks it will also have stutterbox and no lift to shift

 

[paul s]

I'm using DsmLink and a AEM wideband 02(gauge type), I'm logging AFR on the Dsmlink. With that combo you have total control..

 

[dsm-onster]

there are 10 second and 9 second cars runing DSMLink. . . ECU+ is a great option for affordability.

But you can't do somethings like change when the knock sensor looks for knock (good for that pesky phantom knock), control over other specific sensors, solenoids, computer grounds making life as a tuner and diagnoser easier. You cannot raise the rev limit (for that big turbo/cam combination). and I don't see ECU+ controlling injectors as large as 1400cc.

It depends on your goals. If you want to buy something that you know you'll never need an upgrade then get dsmlink.If you feel like you'll never take the car to a level beyond the ecu+, then just decide if the knock control, engine component control, and diagnosis options is or is not worth the 250 bones for a EPROM. ECU+ seams to be a great tool. the best piggyback out there, no doubt! Just not the control that DSMLink has.

 

[justin0469]

I am not sure about the 1400cc injectors but it does allow you to enter any size injector you have and does its own calculations. But even if it doesnt, how many people on this entire board use 1400cc injectors? Every now and then I see 1000cc but thats about it. The other things you talk about are typically rarely used by the average driver or even tuner until you get really into legal racing or have severe problems I suppose. Anyways, my point is that for the practical purposes of the majority of people on this site, ECU+ is just as good as DSMlink and cheaper.

 

[flacopower]

I don't see ECU+ controlling injectors as large as 1400cc.

well i don't really think that will be a problem in my case.. i have an safc and datalogger and the lack of timing correction is KILLING me. so i have to bite the bullet on cost and upgrade AGAIN, which i hate to do. if i get ECU+ will i be looking to upgrade again in a couple of years? oh and on the dsmlink there is no lift to shift and i was wondering if anyone used it..

 

[dsm-onster]

I admit that I may have purchased ecu+ if I knew it was out there back when I got dsmlink. But now that I have all the options w/ dsmlink, I feel like I made the most rational and beneficial purchase i could make for my car.

I am not sure about the 1400cc injectors but it does allow you to enter any size injector you have and does its own calculations.

Guy on dsmlinks forum, uses 1700cc injectors (buy big buy once ). You don't need a maf upgrade with dsmlink... read about that one. dsmlink lets the ecu work with deadtime calculations so that you can truely dial in your injectors. Many of us have a horrible time getting our cars to idle correctly with 650cc injectors bacause they have 400 to 500 microseconds more deadtime (that's huge!).

But even if it doesnt, how many people on this entire board use 1400cc injectors? Every now and then I see 1000cc but thats about it.

Well, does ecu+ do just fine with 1000cc injectors? I may be upgrading to that? I don't know, but the other options that no piggy back has plus me not wanting a limitation on my fuel upgradabililty is the reason why I purchased. So this is truely a personal point of view.

The other things you talk about are typically rarely used by the average driver or even tuner until you get really into legal racing or have severe problems I suppose.

A faulty injector is a common problem but annoying and dsmlink lets you cut each injector on and off while the car is running to determine which one is stuck. You can cut egr trouble codes out of your life and other engine code errors that you have intentionally generated. Those are very common problems. And holy he!! how many of us have problems with phantom knock. Even if you fix it as I did (on several ocasions), it still can crop up somewhere else (as with me, on several ocasions). And the NLTS option is for guys who want to shave 2 to 5 tenths off their 1/4 mile times. Everyone wants that. Plus, it has nitrous control that can be used as water/alky injection control too. Antilag is incorperated too. Coasting fuel cut is adjustable. It can save your gas milage. you can change your target idle speed so that you can run a way more aggresive cam and/or lightened flywheel and not have your car cut out between shifts in everyday driving. You can make your CEL come on when you reach a certain knock threshold. So you don't have to look at your logger WHILE driving very, very fast. Change your stock boost guage to guage other relavent engine perameters since you should have an aftermarket boost guage anyway. You can modify your coolant temperature inputs to drop in that 160* thermostat (this drastically brought my knock down and has allowed me to run 3 psi more boost than I could before!!! (about a 25-30 horsepower increase).

Anyways, my point is that for the practical purposes of the majority of people on this site, ECU+ is just as good as DSMlink and cheaper.

Many people on this site want to have the options I mentioned above. Don't speak for everyone. Many, many DSMers may infact want the ability to have no limit on their fuel and have the options mentioned above. But, please do speak for yourself. Our convictions in our product preferences ultimately raises the quality and versatility of each and lowers the price .

 

[dsm-onster]

oh and on the dsmlink there is no lift to shift and i was wondering if anyone used it..

I havn't been to the track since my DSMLink install, but I have done the illegal, bad, you-should-never-do hard run up to 100 mph on a flat deserted back road and i reach 100 35-40 feet earlier. And i can't really use the nlts in the 1-2 shift (FWD).

 

[IIIISFL]

Hey you guys, I am kind of in the blue about the DSMLink and ECU+.
But I would like to look into the DSMLink it sound very helpfull and functional.
I have a laptop setup in my car already with XP Pro on it
Can you tell me, Is DSMLink like a software can I put it on my laptop
using XP Pro or does it need it's own laptop

Thanks for any info you can give me.

(My laptop is just used like a Personal Computer type thing, I have it
hooked up to my cars AUX monitors and stereo deck with plugs so I
can still take it out of my car. I use it in the car for playing DivX movies
DVDs and music)

 

[flacopower]

^^^ Yeah you could run dsmlink on your labtop, but the problem for us 96-99 guys is that we require a eprom ecu which will run you about $300..

 

[justin0469]

Before I start I just want to say that this is all constructive discussion and not meant to sound like I am an a$$ and I know everything because I know I don't. In my first post I said I am not up to DSMlink's capabilities because I have never used it.

Guy on dsmlinks forum, uses 1700cc injectors (buy big buy once ). You don't need a maf upgrade with dsmlink... read about that one. dsmlink lets the ecu work with deadtime calculations so that you can truely dial in your injectors. Many of us have a horrible time getting our cars to idle correctly with 650cc injectors bacause they have 400 to 500 microseconds more deadtime (that's huge!).

If you say so, but I could have sworn that DSMlink required the use of a MAFT for the MAF to run correctly. And for the majority, 1000cc is big enough. I am running a 50trim and built engine, I run 720cc and thats more then enough watching my injector duty.

Well, does ecu+ do just fine with 1000cc injectors? I may be upgrading to that? I don't know, but the other options that no piggy back has plus me not wanting a limitation on my fuel upgradabililty is the reason why I purchased. So this is truely a personal point of view.

I do not have personal experience with 1000cc injectors but from what I have heard it does just fine.

A faulty injector is a common problem but annoying and dsmlink lets you cut each injector on and off while the car is running to determine which one is stuck. You can cut egr trouble codes out of your life and other engine code errors that you have intentionally generated. Those are very common problems. And holy he!! how many of us have problems with phantom knock. Even if you fix it as I did (on several ocasions), it still can crop up somewhere else (as with me, on several ocasions).

Common enough for it not to shock someone to hear about it but not even an every month occurence. I have had 2 DSMs and never run into that. But when it does happen obviously that would be very useful.

And the NLTS option is for guys who want to shave 2 to 5 tenths off their 1/4 mile times. Everyone wants that. Plus, it has nitrous control that can be used as water/alky injection control too. Antilag is incorperated too. Coasting fuel cut is adjustable. It can save your gas milage. you can change your target idle speed so that you can run a way more aggresive cam and/or lightened flywheel and not have your car cut out between shifts in everyday driving. You can make your CEL come on when you reach a certain knock threshold. So you don't have to look at your logger WHILE driving very, very fast. Change your stock boost guage to guage other relavent engine perameters since you should have an aftermarket boost guage anyway. You can modify your coolant temperature inputs to drop in that 160* thermostat (this drastically brought my knock down and has allowed me to run 3 psi more boost than I could before!!! (about a 25-30 horsepower increase).

ECU+ has NLTS and anti-lag in its next software release. The various other cool bells and whistles, you are right, ECU+ currently cannot do that. But also ECU+ is relatively new and is always evolving. The hardware will not need to be upgrade for some time (if ever) but the software will have the option to be upgraded everytime a new feature is added. I think Tom is more concerned with bigger features such as the NLTS and anit-lag, etc before he starts fine tuning the little things like bells and whistles. I know that things that have been mentioned to him include boost control and water/alky injection control, so I would expect to see those down the road. But also keep in mind because the ECU+ is external of the ECU, it cannot control the same things. The original ECU+ did not have OBD support because of that reason. Now it does. I don't know what the limitations are but there are some. Not that this matters too much to the end user but considering that fact, the things that can be done with the ECU+ is very impressive.

Many people on this site want to have the options I mentioned above. Don't speak for everyone. Many, many DSMers may infact want the ability to have no limit on their fuel and have the options mentioned above. But, please do speak for yourself. Our convictions in our product preferences ultimately raises the quality and versatility of each and lowers the price .

Very true, to each their own. For the average tuner, in my opinion, it is neck to neck between these systems. When you get more in depth and hardcore, DSMlink has some things to come out the top, but thats why it costs more even for just the unit, not including gettin an EPROM and socketing it. I am very happy having the ECU+ and there has not been a time since I have had it that I wished I had the DSMlink.

 

[dsm-onster]

Before I start I just want to say that this is all constructive discussion and not meant to sound like I am an a$$ and I know everything because I know I don't. In my first post I said I am not up to DSMlink's capabilities because I have never used it.

I understand. We can be civil, upstanding internet fellows here. No offense taken .

If you say so, but I could have sworn that DSMlink required the use of a MAFT for the MAF to run correctly. And for the majority, 1000cc is big enough. I am running a 50trim and built engine, I run 720cc and thats more then enough watching my injector duty.

Oh, here's the link to fake maf, use map, and switch over components.

Very true, to each their own. For the average tuner, in my opinion, it is neck to neck between these systems. When you get more in depth and hardcore, DSMlink has some things to come out the top, but thats why it costs more even for just the unit, not including gettin an EPROM and socketing it. I am very happy having the ECU+ and there has not been a time since I have had it that I wished I had the DSMlink.

I understand... and my opinion the ameture can benefit from those cahracteristics that set dsmlink apart. But as you say, to each there own... This is where probably it can be said that these questions about which setup is for me is pointless... in the end, the user has to decide what he needs based on his own research and his personal goals and his personal definition of value.

All this being said ecu+ looks like a great product and I never intended to negat it's ability to do what it was designed to do.

 

[IIIISFL]

I read a bit about DSMLink over ECU+ and you mentioned having to get work done on your ECU, Or even having to buy a new one. But is seems the advantage over DSMLink would be that, ECU+ is simple and affordable, this is because it is more of a "Plug-n-Play".
But DSMLink has to be "socketed" it is more of a Direct application.
Some also prefer their software over others it is a complex program,
Yet has the layout of a windows Operating System.

Then again I am also just now starting to read and learn about them and dont have any experience with either, But with the ECU thing it's Plug-n-Play vs. Direct Application.

 

[baws1872]

Is dsmlink any good for non-turbos? Also I don't have any mods done to the engine or fuel system yet would it even be useful for me?

 

[Fastbanker]

For the money, DSMlink and WB combo is the best bet. Takes all the guess work out of the equation.