DSM Link or SAFC.....??

[splsat4]

Ok so I have recently bought my old 1G back and the guy took some of my original parts off and I would like to upgrade again to better parts. I sold it with a VPC and SAFC and It worked well for my old set up 20g etc...He now put a LS1 MAF along with a MAFT and am very dissappointed in the setup. I would like to go to either the SAFC or get the DSM link. Now i have a slightly larger turbo (50 trim ams kit) and will be upgrading my injectors from 550s to probably 720s along with HKS cams. (Please read my profile for all other mods)

You are asking...well what is your goal with the car and I will say that i do not have the funds to fully build it and do not plan to unless i am forced to rebuild. I would like to hit somewhere around 450whp. Any suggestions?

Thank you Frank

Also would you recommend keeping the LS1 MAS or getting an EVO MAS?

Frank

 

[2gGSX]

With 720cc injectors you really only have the options of
1. DSMLink
2. Get a TMO/Keydriver or whatever chip to compensate for your injectors

I would suggest DSMLink as it is a great tool allowing you more tuning options as well as allowing you to get by MAS overrun. The option is called "fake MAS" and basically extrapolates past the factory limits using either volumetric efficiencies and/or a MAP sensor signal.

My suggestion would be to get DSMLink. In addition you will get access to the forums which are beyond helpful.

 

[Talesin]

DSMLink and keep the GM MAS and MAF-T. You'll be quite satisfied once you get it into good tune.

 

[splsat4]

I was told that you have to run a MAS with the DSM link!? Is this not so?

I do not have my heart set on 720cc injectors I just dont think that the RX7 was the best choice to go with and would like to upgrade them to be able to tune for my 450 whp goal. any suggestions on size? (I did not put the injectors in so please dont ask)

Thank you again

 

[Talesin]

You do need a MAS, but once it overruns it can extrapolate based on the volumetric efficiency curve. You tune the VE curve to match the actual airflow at a boost level that doesn't overrun the MAS, then can turn up the boost again.

 

[splsat4]

You have lost me on the tuning portion, I am not very knowledgable of that as it has been about 5yrs since ive owned a DSM or any fast car for that matter. I will leave that to the guys at the dyno. I appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions.

What I will ask is where is the best place to purchase the DSM Link from in regards to price?

Thank you again

Frank

 

[splsat4]

So wouldnt the DSM Link control nearly everything in regards to a/f? What would be the benefit of keeping the MAFT? Wouldnt that make it more complicated and difficult to tune? Or can the DSM Link not translate the signal ?

 

[2gGSX]

So wouldnt the DSM Link control nearly everything in regards to a/f? What would be the benefit of keeping the MAFT? Wouldnt that make it more complicated and difficult to tune? Or can the DSM Link not translate the signal ?

There are writeups on the forums that explain how to get the MAFT and DSMLink to work together. In V3 DSMLink it's been said that there will be native support for GM MAFs.

DSMLink does control "nearly everything in regards to a/f" as well as timing and other odds and ends.

 

[Talesin]

I just recently mailed them, and though V3 is rumored to include GM MAS direct functionality, it is not confirmed if it'll be in or not. Also, V3 development was just started this month; they don't plan to have it ready for sale for at least 3-4 months, if not longer.

The stock Karmann Vortex MAS is extremely restrictive and does not give an accurate reading a lot of the time. It increases turbo lag time by being an intake obstruction. The GM MAS is generally mounted after the turbo (and after the BOV for that matter), allowing for a quicker spool, more accurate air metering, and up to 500% freer flow overall. It also will not overrun as easily as the stock MAS.

Generally, you hook up the GM MAS and MAF-T, and leave the MAF-T set at zero across the board. It's only there to get the air signal to the ECU... all of your tuning, air/fuel, timing, baseline injector size compensation, etc are all handled via DSMLink.
Eventually though, even the GM MAS will overrun. You can switch to a speed/density system with a 3 BAR GM MAP sensor and an intake air temp sensor, or you can use DSMLink to calculate the volumetric efficiency of your engine at a non-overrunning boost level. Essentially turn down the boost, and set the sliders on the VE table so the VE values match the non-overrun MAS values. Then turn the boost up. At the point that the MAS is overrun, it'll switch over to 'guesstimating' your airflow, based upon engine efficiency.

The only things you need to tune are DSMLink, a wideband O2, and an AFPR. The GM MAS and MAF-T are just nice to have.

 

[splsat4]

Thank you so much, I will have to do some reading on the dsm link further than I did now. Sounds like thats the route that would make the best tuning options.

I would have to get the evo mas if i get the current dsm link then correct? since the 1g is not a great unit

 

[2gGSX]

You *could* stay with the 1g MAS with DSMLink, although like you said it is not as capable as the 2g MAS and thus you would be forced to resort to the fake MAF option earlier. I'm not familiar with the Evo MAS, but when ordering the 1g DSMLink you can choose to have the chip burned for:
1g or 1g MAFT
2g or 2g MAFT
Hacked 2g
VR4 or hacked 1g

Thus I would suggest either using the MAFT option to get by overrunning your 1g MAS, or upgrading to a 2g MAS then ordering DSMLink to be burned for a 2g MAS. If you have questions on the 2g MAS upgrade, you can find the vfaq here: http://www.vfaq.com/mods/2GMAF-1G.html

The 2g MAS would hold you to somewhere in the 40 lbs/min airflow range, and once you start seeing symptoms of MAS overrun (the forums can help you determine this) you can start playing with the fake MAF settings.

 

[bird man]

dsmlink will control everything any anything you want your car to do. it is perfect for tuning and the great thing is that it utitlizes your stock ecu. meaning...unlike AEM EMS if you change altitude/climate, your computer maked up for it automatically to retain the tuning your have done.
if you are trying to run that much power with those injectors you will deffinitly want dsmlink. i have it and am extremely satisfied