Do I need DSM Link for Wideband?

[lccynmbr13]

The GSX is in the shop having everything completely checked out as far as boost vaccum and compression goes. They found a couple boost leaks that I missed. It's at a DSM specialty shop. The guy told me he recommended getting a wideband so he could tune my car to make it not run so rich (I have black suit all over my exhaust). I'm not sure if I heard him right but I think he said I need to have DSM link or some other type of management system to run a WB. I want to find out if this is true or not because if not I'm probably going to just install either the AEM or Autometer wideband myself. Thanks guys!

 

[DanThMan1983]

Get a wideband or find someone with a wideband just so you can get more accurate readings and then you can accurately tune with either DSMlink or an SAFC. You dont have to have the wideband on the car all the time just for tuning. Even though some people do run it all the time.

 

[92awddsm]

The GSX is in the shop having everything completely checked out as far as boost vaccum and compression goes. They found a couple boost leaks that I missed. It's at a DSM specialty shop. The guy told me he recommended getting a wideband so he could tune my car to make it not run so rich (I have black suit all over my exhaust). I'm not sure if I heard him right but I think he said I need to have DSM link or some other type of management system to run a WB. I want to find out if this is true or not because if not I'm probably going to just install either the AEM or Autometer wideband myself. Thanks guys!

No, you dont need dsmlink to use a wideband but you do need some sort of fuel management to tune with. A wideband would be almost useless without some sort of tuning equipment to make adjustments with.

 

[jordanrw]

the wideband basically just gives you readings, then you need management to tune.

 

[Bo0O0ostedDSM]

Get a wideband or find someone with a wideband just so you can get more accurate readings and then you can accurately tune with either DSMlink or an SAFC. You dont have to have the wideband on the car all the time just for tuning. Even though some people do run it all the time.

I've never heard of people using a wideband O2 to tune with, and then removing it when they are done. I think you might be getting a wideband mixed up a datalogger. I know lots of DSM guys who borrow their friends logger to tune with because they're too cheap to buy their own.

Which brings me to my point: lccynmbr13, you need a datalogger. Its the easiest (and cheapest) way to accurately monitor your A/F ratio. I say "accurately" to dispell any notions you might have of using some worthless narrowband Air/Fuel gauge. Also, a datalogger is helpful in monitoring and recording other vital information. For instance, CEL's... with a logger, you can diagnose and delete any CEL's you might have. Personally, I suggest getting a pocketlogger. Best of luck, and let me know if you have anymore questions.

-Andrew

 

[delta448]

I've never heard of people using a wideband O2 to tune with, and then removing it when they are done. I think you might be getting a wideband mixed up a datalogger.

They said what they meant. Some people do remove widebands after using them to tune.

Which brings me to my point: lccynmbr13, you need a datalogger. Its the easiest (and cheapest) way to accurately monitor your A/F ratio. I say "accurately" to dispell any notions you might have of using some worthless narrowband Air/Fuel gauge.

The datalogger is still using the factory narrowband O2 sensor for its reading, so it is not more accurate than those worthless narrowband A/F gauges.

 

[lccynmbr13]

Alright so basically what I'm getting from all this is I can install a wideband without any sort of management and it will tell me if I'm running rich/lean but in order to do something about the rich/lean condition I need to run something like DSM Link. Thanks guys just wanted to better understand what the guys at the shop were trying to tell me so I don't stand there looking dumbfounded when they tell me what they want to do.

 

[DSM_NOOBIE]

The GSX is in the shop having everything completely checked out as far as boost vaccum and compression goes. They found a couple boost leaks that I missed. It's at a DSM specialty shop. The guy told me he recommended getting a wideband so he could tune my car to make it not run so rich (I have black suit all over my exhaust). I'm not sure if I heard him right but I think he said I need to have DSM link or some other type of management system to run a WB. I want to find out if this is true or not because if not I'm probably going to just install either the AEM or Autometer wideband myself. Thanks guys!

Nope, you don't need DSMlink for a wideband. Question is what good is a wideband without tunability such as the DSMlink provides. In most cases you would want to get a fuel management system(DSMlink, AEM standalone, Apexi s-afc neo etc) before you get a wideband. There are always dynos out there that should have and provide them when you have them tune your car or if you feel knowledgable enough get one yourself and tune away.

 

[92awddsm]

I've never heard of people using a wideband O2 to tune with, and then removing it when they are done. I think you might be getting a wideband mixed up a datalogger. I know lots of DSM guys who borrow their friends logger to tune with because they're too cheap to buy their own.

Thats because no one tunes with a wideband. A wideband is a monitoring device that gives an accurate a/f ratio and you use your tuning tool(dsmlink, afc, etc) to tune for proper a/f ratio. And dsmlink is not only a tuning tool, it is also a logger amongst other things.

The reason people remove their wideband o2 sensor after tuned is to preserve the life of it. Leaving it installed will just deteriorate the sensor and they are not cheap to replace.

Which brings me to my point: lccynmbr13, you need a datalogger. Its the easiest (and cheapest) way to accurately monitor your A/F ratio. I say "accurately" to dispell any notions you might have of using some worthless narrowband Air/Fuel gauge. Also, a datalogger is helpful in monitoring and recording other vital information. For instance, CEL's... with a logger, you can diagnose and delete any CEL's you might have. Personally, I suggest getting a pocketlogger. Best of luck, and let me know if you have anymore questions.

-Andrew

A datalogger is a useful tool for tuning but it is about the worst thing you can use to monitor a/f ratio. The wideband is used for accuracy when monitoring a/f ratio. And as alredy stated, the datalogger uses the worthless stock narrowband o2 sensor to display fuel and o2 trims, but it gives no a/f ratio.

 

[Bo0O0ostedDSM]

They said what they meant. Some people do remove widebands after using them to tune.

Awesome. I'd never heard of that before... thanks for the info.

The datalogger is still using the factory narrowband O2 sensor for its reading, so it is not more accurate than those worthless narrowband A/F gauges.

Yes and no. Stand alone dataloggers (loggers that use their own independent, wideband sensors) are accurate in reading things such as Air/Fuel ratio, as they don't rely on a faulty reading from the ECU. However, the datalogger I suggested to you (the pocketlogger) is not a standalone datalogger; therefore it doesn't have independent sensors. Instead, it just plugs into your OBDII port and reads the signal your stock sensors are telling your ECU. Because of this, the Air/Fuel ratio that you get on your pocketlogger is not accurate as its still relying on the narrowband sensor.

My initial information was correct, there are dataloggers (stand alone's) that provide an accurate Air/Fuel ratio. However, the product that I recommended (pocketlogger) is not a stand alone, and therefore does not provide an accurate Air/Fuel ratio. I am deeply sorry, and apologize for any confusion my post caused.

-Andrew


EDIT: Here is a link that backs my information... What Is a Datalogger?

 

[Bo0O0ostedDSM]

Thats because no one tunes with a wideband. A wideband is a monitoring device that gives an accurate a/f ratio and you use your tuning tool(dsmlink, afc, etc) to tune for proper a/f ratio. And dsmlink is not only a tuning tool, it is also a logger amongst other things.

The reason people remove their wideband o2 sensor after tuned is to preserve the life of it. Leaving it installed will just deteriorate the sensor and they are not cheap to replace.

Yes, people tune with their wideband. I know you don't make the actual "tuning" adjustments with the wideband. I know you use DSMlink, SAFC, etc. to make the actual adjustments to your fuelmap, air/fuel ratio, etc. However, the accurate air/fuel information the wideband O2 sensor provides is used to make proper adjustments when tuning. Therefore, you do tune with a wideband.

-Andrew

 

[GRNDSM]

I've never heard of people using a wideband O2 to tune with, and then removing it when they are done. I think you might be getting a wideband mixed up a datalogger. I know lots of DSM guys who borrow their friends logger to tune with because they're too cheap to buy their own.

I take it you have never been to a dyno? Every decent dyno facility provides a wideband for the duration of dyno tuning session. So yes, there are many people who install temporally wideband O2 sensors, just for tuning purposes.

And if you think about it, that is all you really need a wideband 02 sensor for. A narrowband sensor can do a fine job for everyday driving and your ECU does not rely on an 02 sensor at WOT.

But I do not want to get it pissing match discussing technicalities. Here what this comes down to:

- A datalogger simply gives you an opportunity to look back at a tuning run and review what was happening. Datalogger CAN NOT tune anything…
- Wideband 02 sensor is just one more “gauge” or datalogger input to look at. It too, can not tune anything.

You need a standalone ECU (ie AEM EMS), ECU modification (DSM Link or other custom chips) or a piggyback device (ie SAFC) to actually tune…

If you want to avoid (delay?) buying a wideband, get something to tune with and tune it on a dyno with THEIR wideband. But frankly, doing this when wideband systems are selling for around $300 is just silly.

I would recommend getting DSM Link AND a wideband O2 (like the AEM gauge unit). If you can’t afford both, get the DSM Link first!