DNP Tubular header

[D's GS-T]

Quick question,
I was wondering if the DNP tubular header will work with a FP green, and if so is it worth the money, or are there better options.

 

[tim4g63fast]

Whatever you say, welding inspector gadget. You can declare those welds test-passable, but in the same breath say that you can't tell without an x-ray. It comes down to the fact that you may have inspected every weld on every nuclear reactor in this country, but I'm the one that's actually held multiple DNP's in my hands and seen the ching quan pulsed over "welds" and seen the total lack of complete penetration, which you can't see in any picture of the outside of the manifold, much less a crappy picture of a polished manifold.

I said it before and I'll say it again, why do no other legit manifold makers pulse over their welds?

Agree to disagree and see if anyone else has anything to throw in.

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okay let me make this simpler for you... we are going by a picture..there for it would have to be a visual inspection.. even in your hand other than looking at the root and surface there is not much more you can do unless you have a ut machine or a radioactive materials licence..

sure if i had it in my had along with a IR192 camera film and a processer I could further examine it but we dont

you said those welds are crappy.. yet provide no proof other than being pulsed over and that is not enough to reject a weld.. it may be enough to fire a guy over but it dose not make it a bad weld.

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as far as seeing lack of pen I would love to know how you can tell a weld has incomplete penatration from the outside... you would have to look at the root.. INSIDE obviously you cannot do that from the picture..

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:shakes head:

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[gsx951]

Please refer to post #99.

 

[tim4g63fast]

Please refer to post #99.

truf.com

I guess in all reality I am trying to convince somebody that knows very little of what they are talking about.

I give up

 

[CTP]

as far as seeing lack of pen I would love to know how you can tell a weld has incomplete penatration from the outside...

dur dur dur... you look inside the runners.

 

[tim4g63fast]

dur dur dur... you look inside the runners.

if you have it in your hand were talking about the one in the pictures that you claimed had crappy welds

and if you can see the root on all of those welds you should go ahead and get CWI certified through AWS you will be rich

 

[tkelly27]

As long as we've got the attention of a CWI in this thread, one thing I've always wondered is if poor weld penetration is even an issue when the turbo is properly supported. Isn't it just a sealed pressure vessel at that point, no longer a load bearing sysem? Or are thremal stresses going to damage a poor weld sooner than a good weld.

 

[CTP]

if you have it in your hand were talking about the one in the pictures that you claimed had crappy welds

and if you can see the root on all of those welds you should go ahead and get CWI certified through AWS you will be rich

You can't seem to understand that I'm not talking about the one in the picture, hence why you have no basis to be arguing with me. I've seen them in person and you're simply going off a shitty picture of a polished manifold.

 

[kenamond]

I'm also curious how much of these cracking problems are due to the weight of the mani+turbo+dp hanging on them vs. fatigue from thermal stress.

As far as weld quality, nobody is going to convince anyone else here about weld quality from a picture. And I doubt someone is going to play "Consumer Reports", buy one from each vendor and do a rigorous quality inspection either. About all we can do is go off of the experiences folks have had from specific products.

This thread is borderline flame war as it is. Take it to PMs if you want to yell at each other about how smart you are and how stupid they are.

 

[99gst_racer]

I've seen them in person and you're simply going off a shitty picture of a polished manifold.

Correction: You've seen some of them in person. You obviously don't have any hands-on experience with the DNP-60 in the picture above.

As far as weld quality, nobody is going to convince anyone else here about weld quality from a picture. And I doubt someone is going to play "Consumer Reports", buy one from each vendor and do a rigorous quality inspection either. About all we can do is go off of the experiences folks have had from specific products.

This thread is borderline flame war as it is. Take it to PMs if you want to yell at each other about how smart you are and how stupid they are.

Well put.

 

[CTP]

Correction: You've seen some of them in person. You obviously don't have any hands-on experience with the DNP-60 in the picture above.

That's correct.

 

[PSI2HI]

I agree as well this thread has some pretty bogus comments. We've replaced more DNP, SSAC, OBX, etc manis than i can even count. As far as the comment about start and spot points go, welding pipe in one solid pass is not only going to overheat the material as well as fatique it but the weld is going to be extremely dirty and contaminated.

We have never been one to hide our welding thats why we display many close up detailed pics. If someone is looking for a very reliable properly built manifold they need to be willing to pay for it.

Detailed pics of our manifolds:

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[98eclipsekidd08]

ha the SBR manifold, thats the first problem is buying something they made, as for all this bad weld crap get over it, learn to weld yourselfs. I work in a performance exhaust shop tig welding everyday and some of thoes ebay weld are awful ha. I have the FP and love it just my opinion.

 

[gsx951]

How in the world does a single pass weld fatigue anything? Fatigue is the result of repeated stress.

 

[PSI2HI]

How in the world does a single pass weld fatigue anything? Fatigue is the result of repeated stress.

Referring to running all the way around the pipe w/o stops. Excessive heat will also create fatigue

 

[gsx951]

Referring to running all the way around the pipe w/o stops. Excessive heat will also create fatigue

Not to be rude but you are absolutely incorrect. Fatigue is mechanical and is in no way related to use of excessive heat in the weldment. The fact is, you are working in 304 which is an austenitic steel; it can not undergo a phase change from austenite due to it's nickel content. That is, 304 stainless steel can't be heat treated.


The length of the pass is limited only by the ability of the operator (or the mechanics of the robot) and the ability to provide proper gas coverage.
Granted, on some weldments it may be required to stagger welds so to limit distortion.

The principal threat to these tubular manifolds comes from inter-granular corrosion.
High service temperatures, combined with carbon from exhaust gasses, base material and filler, allow for the formation of chromium carbides that corrode the bonds between individual grains of material.

Intergranular corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PSI2HI]

Not to be rude but you are absolutely incorrect. Fatigue is mechanical and is in no way related to use of excessive heat in the weldment. The fact is, you are working in 304 which is an austenitic steel; it can not undergo a phase change from austenite due to it's nickel content. That is, 304 stainless steel can't be heat treated.


The length of the pass is limited only by the ability of the operator (or the mechanics of the robot) and the ability to provide proper gas coverage.
Granted, on some weldments it may be required to stagger welds so to limit distortion.

The principal threat to these tubular manifolds comes from inter-granular corrosion.
High service temperatures, combined with carbon from exhaust gasses, base material and filler, allow for the formation of chromium carbides that corrode the bonds between individual grains of material.

Intergranular corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Heat treating has nothing to do w/ this. Are you a welder or a researcher?

 

[gsx951]

Heat treating has nothing to do w/ this. Are you a welder or a researcher?

Heat treating has everything to do with this. The material you are welding is 304 stainless steel. The nickel content in austentic stainless prevents it from undergoing a phase change and becoming brittle.
If 304 were sensitve to heat, you'd need to be pre and post heating the weldment but you don't because it is not required-it will not change phase and harden.

The types of material where you have to be mindful of heat are ones where martinsite will form, such as air-hardening tool steels (A2, D2 etc.). The phase change to martinsite will cause the HAZ to be overly hard and brittle; the internal stresses are often greater than the UTS allowing the material to hot crack. Fortunately, with 304 stainless, this is not an issue.

To answer your question, yes I am a welder. I struck my first arc back in the late '70's and have been welding professionally since 1990.
I work in a medium sized plant supplying the heavy truck industry. The '90's were spent as a production welder but now I design and build tooling, (mostly welding fixtures), fabricate prototypes, weld repair tooling and machine tools, program robots and advise our our welding and management teams as a "continuous improvement coordinator".

 

[leecavturbo]

you guys
do you think they used the best materials and workmanship
on the space shuttle? of course they do.
do they have failures ? yes.
so just because bob had dnp or cast fail thats not
a true representation of quality.
why have a thread with hundreds of opinions to trawl through
when a simple poll of dnp users satisfied, dnp fails , SSauto satisfied ,
SS fails, sls blah blah will clearly give a trend for everyone to seen
at a glance !

 

[gsx951]

you guys
do you think they used the best materials and workmanship
on the space shuttle?

Actually, NASA has removed millions of dollars worth of counterfeit fasteners from the shuttles!

 

[mitsu-luver]

Are you joking? It's 18 gauge steel pulse welded in some third world country by five year old slave laborers. Please don't make comments like that unless you have some fabrication and manifold building experience.

and u do??? i ain't seen none of ## fab work? i think a good manifold would be composed
of inconel, symmetry for amazing boost control, and equal length, welded on the inside, half inch increments on the outside, with lots of bracing, never found a amazingly designed manifold American made the best Ive found is made by kansai service(hks) japan knows what their doin

 

[HOT97ECLIPSEGSX]

Holy crap this thread sucks! I came to find actual comparison information and all I got was a pissing match about which welds are better and whose weld sucks and how to tell good welds from bad welds. Good grief.

EDIT: I guess the title of this thread is just about the DNP manifold...haha so I retract my prior comment. I've read too many threads about comparisons that I thought I was reading one.

I recently installed my FP Race manifold and got rid of my cracking DNP. I had prior cracks welded by a buddy who used a TIG. I guess I can get a log of a pull and see how she does. However, before I installed my FP race manifold I did tinker with the boost controller. I believe I set it for 25 psi with the DNP. I was hitting 25 psi before I pulled the DNP. We'll see how she does once I get her bolted up. I'll post my DSMlink long once I am finished.

EDIT #2: Maybe this post is better meant for another thread. Mods, please move as appropriate.

 

[D's GS-T]

Yeah this thread went south fast . I remember when I made it, and couldn't even bring myself to read half of it .