DNP Tubular header

[D's GS-T]

Quick question,
I was wondering if the DNP tubular header will work with a FP green, and if so is it worth the money, or are there better options.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

I see CtP's point, but 9's on a t25 is just a bit of an exaggeration. I haven't seen faster than a 13.1 on a t25.

 

[petecavscout]

I have seen all kinds of manifolds crack. I have seen very expensive intake and exhaust manifolds crack. I am not convinced that tubular is any more resistant to breaking than cast.

 

[Asimmons90GSX]

Are you joking? It's 18 gauge steel pulse welded in some third world country by five year old slave laborers. Please don't make comments like that unless you have some fabrication and manifold building experience.

WTF are you talking about? I speak from personal experience with the damn thing. My friend and brother have run the DNP manifold on up to 28 lbs of boost on a big turbo and absolutely NO problems. Everything here in america is made somewhere else in some sweat shop. Everybody knows that smart one. Don't give me that unless you have welding experience BS you know nothing about a good manifold. Now I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the FP manifold cause I actually like it. I just perfer the DNP.

 

[90talontsi90]

I'm not sure if I can find the thread but there have been people to make it into the 10's with a T-25, BUUUUT they did it with a 400 shot of nitrous....

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

I'm not sure if I can find the thread but there have been people to make it into the 10's with a T-25, BUUUUT they did it with a 400 shot of nitrous....

Yeah sounds about right if they did make it to 10's. I searched through 900 entry's on dsmtimes.org, and I the best t25 I found was a 13.1.

 

[NATAS]

Why the hell is everyone so amped to spend money on a new exhaust manifold when they're probably in the sub 400whp range? The OP is offering up his suggestions and they're all the sub $400 manifolds. IMO an aftermarket exhaust manifold isn't needed till one is far along the upgrade path. I mean you listed the DNP, FP, and UPS which are all budget selections and IMO are more of a "bling" upgrade than a true power upgrade. Spend your $400 on engine management, fuel support/meth injection, or better yet, proper maintenance.

The MAYBE few extra hp you'll make from changing to a lowish budget manifold isn't worth it IMHO. I have a properly ported 2G manifold that I've had on 3 separate cars and it's uncracked and isn't a restriction for me yet as the cars it was on were my daily drivers and definitely sub 400whp. DSMers have a bad habit of throwing aftermarket parts at their cars hoping it'll make them faster when really knowledge and experience are what make you go fast. Just my $0.02

 

[gsx951]

Exactly my point. I'm glad someone understood what I was getting at. This mentality of "oh well this guy went 4's on this manifold, therefore it must be ####in awsome" is ridiculous. People need to think outside of what "everyone else" has done. Just because it works doesn't mean something else wouldn't work better.


Also, to the other guy. I don't need any data. The burden of proof is on FP to prove that their manifold is better than what already exists.

And to the other guy that thinks DNP's are anything remotely close to a legit manifold, give me a break dude. I could go 9's on a T25, does that make it a good 9 second turbo? Not. Those manifolds are junk. I don't care how fast people have gone on them.

Man there is a lot of heat but zero light here. You're making lists of demands but are able to offer any infomation of your own.
So you made a manifold?
What did you use for CFD?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Yeah sounds about right if they did make it to 10's. I searched through 900 entry's on dsmtimes.org, and I the best t25 I found was a 13.1.

View Profile: hsr98gst - DSMtuners.com

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

View Profile: hsr98gst - DSMtuners.com

Nice. Questionable setup, but 10's either way.

 

[CTP]

Why the hell is everyone so amped to spend money on a new exhaust manifold when they're probably in the sub 400whp range? The OP is offering up his suggestions and they're all the sub $400 manifolds. IMO an aftermarket exhaust manifold isn't needed till one is far along the upgrade path. I mean you listed the DNP, FP, and UPS which are all budget selections and IMO are more of a "bling" upgrade than a true power upgrade. Spend your $400 on engine management, fuel support/meth injection, or better yet, proper maintenance.

The MAYBE few extra hp you'll make from changing to a lowish budget manifold isn't worth it IMHO. I have a properly ported 2G manifold that I've had on 3 separate cars and it's uncracked and isn't a restriction for me yet as the cars it was on were my daily drivers and definitely sub 400whp. DSMers have a bad habit of throwing aftermarket parts at their cars hoping it'll make them faster when really knowledge and experience are what make you go fast. Just my $0.02

That's not the point. Just because something hasn't become 100% restrictive doesn't mean that an upgrade won't yield better performance. This is exactly the reason I laugh at all the 16g people that say 50 trims are too laggy when my 50 trim spools <200rpm later than my E16g/E3 manifold combo did and also has better transient response.

Man there is a lot of heat but zero light here. You're making lists of demands but are able to offer any infomation of your own.
So you made a manifold?

Again, the burden of proof is not on me. I can demand whatever I want. Other people are making the claims about how great FP's manifold is, so back them up with some test data.

Yes, I designed and built my own manifold:

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Don't give me that unless you have welding experience BS you know nothing about a good manifold.

I will give you that because you aren't in a place to make calls on what's quality and what's not because you have no experience or knowledge in fabrication. I have "personal experience" with the laws of physics every day, does that make me qualified to debate with scientists?

 

[gsx951]

Again, the burden of proof is not on me.

Well actually, it is. you called FP cast manifold "crap".

If you require FP fanbois to back up their statments, why would not the same be true for you?

As I asked before, CFD much?

 

[CTP]

Well actually, it is. you called FP cast manifold "crap".

If you require FP fanbois to back up their statments, why would not the same be true for you?

Because my statement was for them to back up their statements. What's there for me to back up? I called it crap because as far as I'm concerned it is until someone can prove it isn't.

 

[JusMX141]

Again, the burden of proof is not on me. I can demand whatever I want.

So can we.

Nice job on the manifold........any timeslips/logs to prove that it's better than an FP Race Mani?

 

[gsx951]

Because my statement was for them to back up their statements. What's there for me to back up? I called it crap because as far as I'm concerned it is until someone can prove it isn't.

I'll ask again, do you have any CFD data for your design?

 

[Asimmons90GSX]

That's what I'd like to know too. How bout some side by side tests with "your manifolt" and a dnp or the fp cast manifold. Your "I'm a physicist" attitude isn't helping you bud. I've never heard of your crappy ass manifold and never seen any tests done with it either. So maybe I think yours is crap. And why do you have the turbo flange at an angle like that where anything bigger than a 50 trim is gonna be slap up against your radiator. Those primaries look a little long.

Let's give him a cookie for his accomplishments on his welding "experience"

 

[Asimmons90GSX]

That's not the point. Just because something hasn't become 100% restrictive doesn't mean that an upgrade won't yield better performance. This is exactly the reason I laugh at all the 16g people that say 50 trims are too laggy when my 50 trim spools <200rpm later than my E16g/E3 manifold combo did and also has better transient response.





Again, the burden of proof is not on me. I can demand whatever I want. Other people are making the claims about how great FP's manifold is, so back them up with some test data.

Yes, I designed and built my own manifold:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7849/picture011jz6.jpg

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2697/picture013cl3.jpg




I will give you that because you aren't in a place to make calls on what's quality and what's not because you have no experience or knowledge in fabrication. I have "personal experience" with the laws of physics every day, does that make me qualified to debate with scientists?

And how exactly do you know this? And who says I have to be a welder to know anythign about a good manifold? Who are you to say that? I don't care what you weld, that doesn't give you the right to call BS on my knowledge of a good manifold. I go by what I see. The DNP is a good manifold. They tested it on the evo 8 with a stock turbo. It gained almost 40 whp with nothing else done besides changing the manifold out for a DNP. Where is your proof of how good your manifold is? Haven't seen yours in a magazine or anywhere else for that matter. Maybe you should contact some different website to see if they'll sell your product. Before that happens I don't want to hear about your POS manifold.

Thank you! Come again!

 

[Brianawd]

Man I have been playing with for almost 10years now. I remember when there was not even forms like this and others. All we had was IRC and yahoo groups. Now days with all the forms, all people have to do is search and read and they think they know how it all works. So many internet racers now days.

 

[Asimmons90GSX]

Well man I am no internet racer I promise you that . I do a lot of work with these cars and talk with slowboy racing a lot. I don't know everything but what I do know I put out there. I'm sure you have a wealth of knowledge about these cars though. If I ever have a question my friend can't answer, who has been in a dsm for nearly 10 years also, I'll come to you.

 

[Brianawd]

Well man I am no internet racer I promise you that . I do a lot of work with these cars and talk with slowboy racing a lot. I don't know everything but what I do know I put out there. I'm sure you have a wealth of knowledge about these cars though. If I ever have a question my friend can't answer, who has been in a dsm for nearly 10 years also, I'll come to you.

 

[Asimmons90GSX]

I love the galant vr4's btw

 

[CTP]

So can we.

Nice job on the manifold........any timeslips/logs to prove that it's better than an FP Race Mani?

Thank you.
Send me an FP Race manifold and we'll find out. Aside from getting a free one I'm not about to spend money to prove what I already know, that a short runner, cast manifold with nearly non-existant collector doesn't flow as well as a long runner tubular with gradual bends and true, merge collector.

However, we're planning on building a stock location tubular and when that's done I'd be more than happy to have someone do a back to back test on them.

That's what I'd like to know too. How bout some side by side tests with "your manifolt" and a dnp or the fp cast manifold. Your "I'm a physicist" attitude isn't helping you bud. I've never heard of your crappy ass manifold and never seen any tests done with it either. So maybe I think yours is crap. And why do you have the turbo flange at an angle like that where anything bigger than a 50 trim is gonna be slap up against your radiator. Those primaries look a little long.

You've never seen it because it's a one off for my car. It was made with no compromises to try to fit the turbo in the stock position. I just wanted the straightest possible runners out of the head and the longest possible runners with the least bends. That's what I came up with. Making another one would be a waste of time because 99% of the DSM community isn't happy unless they can just bolt a manifold on with zero fab work, therefore, no one would buy it.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the radiator clearance. That manifold will clear an S cover easily. Again, it's angled because the last thing I cared about was turbo location. I wanted the straightest possible shot into the collector.

And how exactly do you know this?

Because anyone that thinks a DNP is anything other than SSAC/XSpower EBay junk doesn't know anything about manifold building. Also, you have yet to state otherwise.

And who says I have to be a welder to know anythign about a good manifold? Who are you to say that? I don't care what you weld, that doesn't give you the right to call BS on my knowledge of a good manifold. I go by what I see.

Exactly. You go by what you see, not by any knowledge on the subject. Who says you have to be an engineer to comment on the structural integrity of a bridge. "Yea, that bridge LOOKS great. They even polished it. It's very structurally sound."

The DNP is a good manifold. They tested it on the evo 8 with a stock turbo. It gained almost 40 whp with nothing else done besides changing the manifold out for a DNP.

So what? That's only proving how poor the stock manifold is in spite of the fact that everyone thinks it's so great.

Chopping off the exhaust half way down the downpipe would probably make 50whp. Does that make that an excellent exhaust design?

Where is your proof of how good your manifold is?

I don't need any because I'm not the one out there marketing a product and making claims. My manifold is my manifold, not anyone else's and I'm not trying to sell it and convince you to buy it.

My statements are simple.

The DNP is junk due to poor quality materials and poor workmanship. That's not even debatable. Take it to anyone that has any fab or even just welding experience and they'll tell you the same thing.

The FP manifold is unproven and therefore there's no basis for sack swinging or making claims like "it'll be so much better than a 2G" or "it's way better than the DNP", because, honestly, no one can really confirm that. I said it before and I'll say it again, the majority of the DSM community is all too quick to jump on bandwagons and/or believe everything that big name companies tell them even with no proof. Then after people have repeated the unbased claims for long enough, they just seem to become "fact" in the community. That's simply ridiculous when we're supposed to be the community that claims knowledge is power.

 

[TurboAWDKID]

you want to use a DNP, fine. a cast FP, fine. a ported 2g, fine. to each his own. ANY mani will eventually crack due to expansion from heat, contraction from cooling down, and so on. plus, different materials expand/contract a different rates, so its inevitable that a crack will develope at some point in time, regaurdless of what the mani is made out of or who made it. quality manifolds last longer. cheap junk mani's dont. it may take 5 yrs to crack, it might crack tomorrow, who knows. the power increases may be almost identical between some chinese made $90 e-bay mani and a $400 DNP mani, but reality is that no mani is impervious to cracking. my 1g mani lasted 120K miles before cracking. i put an SBR cast mani on it and it hasnt cracked yet (40k). "your" DNP may last longer than "his" DNP because lets face it, no 2 products are 100% identical. a little too much heat during welding, not enough, etc. ontop of that, different setups are just that, different. "your" mani may not have cracked, but you have a E316g, whereas "his" mani is supporting a gt35 and it cracked. added stress. besides, everyone on the internet knows everything and people believe what they want to believe. lets just stop

 

[kittay]

Well, I have both now.. well technically all 3.. So maybe I'll set up a test comparing a well ported 2g, the dnp and the fp.

 

[tim4g63fast]

talk with slowboy racing a lot.

this isnt something to be proud of



And I highley doubt fp would put anything out there that is junk. They make quality stuff plain and simple.

as far as there manifold goes if you guys are trying to compare it to a ported 2g manifold your crazy... are we like 13 it is vary obvious that it is a much better designed manifold common srsly. And if you read about it you will find it is made of much better material as well. :rollseyes:

 

[CTP]

this isnt something to be proud of



And I highley doubt fp would put anything out there that is junk. They make quality stuff plain and simple.

as far as there manifold goes if you guys are trying to compare it to a ported 2g manifold your crazy... are we like 13 it is vary obvious that it is a much better designed manifold common srsly. And if you read about it you will find it is made of much better material as well. :rollseyes:

It's "vAry obvious"? That's your proof? srsly? Very obvious based on what?

I give up.