Disappointing dyno results today!!!!!

[8urv8]

Man, !! I don't think my clutch cut wire was installed correctly either!! I enabled it in dsmlink and set it to 5500 rpms. As I got on it in first gear, as soon as I hit 5500 the car just felt like it hit a brick wall and I was like WTF?!?!? I guess all i have to do is go back over the wiring to make sure it's correct. I feel like my trip to extreme was a total waste of time and money.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Man, !! I don't think my clutch cut wire was installed correctly either!! I enabled it in dsmlink and set it to 5500 rpms. As I got on it in first gear, as soon as I hit 5500 the car just felt like it hit a brick wall and I was like WTF?!?!? I guess all i have to do is go back over the wiring to make sure it's correct. I feel like my trip to extreme was a total waste of time and money.

If your foot was even barely resting on the clutch then it will activate, so you have to make sure your foot isn't touching the clutch pedal.

 

[dustyduff]

Another shop you may want to check out is Philly Dyno Works. They're located near center city Philadelphia. If you're located in Northern Deleware, it shouldn't be that far from you. Alex (aka gsx-lex) tunes both AEM and DSMLink. I have yet to hear anyone with a bad complaint about them.

Link: http://www.phillydynoworks.com/

 

[MrBoxx]

turn the boost up. from the log, it says youre only running 17-18psi unless im reading that wrong. youre also knocking quite a bit up top.

DSMLink's "BoostEst" is usually off a bit.

It's entirely possible that the shop saw you were at 100% IDC and decided that they couldn't go any farther with the tune without running into problems.

 

[bushy]

what possessed you to go with tiny injectors on dsmlink?

cant really go far with 625cc's my friend

get some 850's and retune. dsmlink can handle any size injector you throw at it.


plus the reason you knock slightly at that point is because there is a 3deg jump in the timing sliders from 5500 to 6000. look at the 2g estimates.

 

[daren_p]

Not able to take a look at the log, but there's some good info in this thread. For your clutch cut, also verify what speed you have set in the launch control. This is the speed at which it switches from launch control limiter to rev limiter. You can't have this speed set higher then the speed your going at 5500 rpm, or your launch control will be your rev limit. Also like Tyler said if your foot is still on the clutch at all (for example if your slipping the clutch out), it will cause this issue.

If your injectors are HRC 625's they are actually more like 550-580cc but looks like your taking care of this. I would go 850 min, for the new ones but if it was me I'd go for 950 or 1000's.

To check if your MAF is hacked, take off the filter & look for portions of the honey combs that have been removed around the sides.

Where did you purchase your DSMLink? Did they give you a user name & password to access the DSMLink forums?

Depending on what type of Dyno it was tested on, 330 awhp may not be all that bad for 20 psi, considering.

 

[8urv8]

The car was built by the previous owner or I would have put bigger injectors in the car if I had done it myself. Also, I specifically told the shop to check the injector duty and we'd go with bigger injectors if mine were maxed out. I shouldn't have even had to tell them this. And as far as the clutch cut, I wired it up myself this morning. It wasn't even touched and I paid for this. It's on my reciept specifically. I'm not sure what brand of injector I should go with. Any input on this would be much appreciated.

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

I'm not sure what brand of injector I should go with.

You should go with FIC (Fuel Injector Clinic) for your injectors.

http://www.fuelinjectorclinic.com/index2.htm

I would just go ahead and get 1000 cc/min injectors, drop em in and probably never have to worry about getting bigger injectors again.

Bill

 

[TurboAnything]

definitly go 1000cc or bigger. with my buddies 2.0 with a 3065(gt3082r)we were at 25psi with 100% DC on 880cc injectors. 484hp at 8000rpms

 

[8urv8]

Ordered 850's yesterday from slowboy racing. Hopefully that will be plenty of injector. Also, I looked at my MAF and saw that there was no honeycomb in the bottom but all the others were there.

 

[pboglio]

I see about 15 h.p. being lost in running that high of an intake temp. Probably another 10 h.p. or more just in running such a low timing curve.

Assuming your injectors really flow 625cc at 285 g/sec airflow and .92 volt 02, you shouldn't be seeing 100% duty cycle. I ran into a similar problem on my 660cc injectors. I was also running near 100% duty cycle under similar conditions. Once I rewired my fuel pump I had to drop my fuel injectors to about 86% duty cycle to maintain similar 02 readings.

 

[thekellbeast]

I don't want to be an ass, but has anyone else noticed that the OP has refused to answer any questions about whether or not his copy of DSMLink is legit, and hasn't said anything about posting on the forums?

Sorry if I'm unjustly accusing anyone of anything...

 

[olmytsi]

Dude, with a setup like that, you need to learn more. You CANNOT rely on shops.

327awhp at 20 psi on pump gas is nothing to be ashamed of, do you know what that translates to at the crank? Damn near 400 if not a lil over it. That's PLENTY of power on pump for daily driving.

 

[BrokenTsi]

Timing is way too low. You'll make much more power with better timing. I try to run mine in the 21-23 degree range. DSM link estimates me at just over 500whp on pump gas at 26-28psi. I also use 950cc injectors for my gt3082r.

 

[Zmann42087]

327awhp at 20 psi on pump gas is nothing to be ashamed of, do you know what that translates to at the crank? Damn near 400 if not a lil over it. That's PLENTY of power on pump for daily driving.

Very true, but I think he is dissapointed because the GT30R he is running is capable of much more than the paltry 327whp its putting out now.

To the OP, you definitely need bigger injectors. Then find a (different) reputable shop and get a good dyno tune.

 

[olmytsi]

Indeed it is, but not at 20 psi with low timing.

 

[8urv8]

Guys, I'm not sure if I've got a genuine copy of the dsmlink. I bought the dsmlink from the guy that I bought the car off of. I just picked up some 850 injectors so that problem is solved for now. My other concern is I'm not hitting full boost until about 4600rpms. Once I put the injectors in and get the fuel thing ironed out, when I advance the WOT timing across the board, will it spool the turbo a little faster?

And yes, I was concerned the shop didn't rectify the injector duty, advance the timing and squeeze more power out of this thing.

 

[gixrman]

You could have a boost leak, does it still have the stock cams? I would'nt go advancing any timing until you get other things straightened out. You can log your wideband on Link to help out with tunning and get yourself a 3bar GM map while your at it.

 

[dsm-onster]

Dude, with a setup like that, you need to learn more. You CANNOT rely on shops.

327awhp at 20 psi on pump gas is nothing to be ashamed of, do you know what that translates to at the crank? Damn near 400 if not a lil over it. That's PLENTY of power on pump for daily driving.

Not at all!!! "Dude", you need to hop out of your car during a hard pull and touch your transmision bellhousing.

A little over 400 hp is say 405hp, ok? 1 hp = 746Watts. Everyone assumes that there's about 20% drive train loss w/ AWD. 20% of 405 hp = 81 hp. It's logical to conclude that it doesnot take 81 hp to turn the drive train itself (w/ no friction). Perhaps 30 hp. So 81hp - 30 hp = 51 hp. 51hp X 746watts = 38,046 watts of just heat energy?!!! No way. That's enough heat to melt granite into lava. Since no pengine parts are melted in the engine bay nor are there spontanious fires, it's logical to assume that there's less drivetrain loss.

You most certainly CAN rely on shops that will let you look at what they're doing to your car on the dyno and are willing to give clear and detailed answers to questions of one w/ a watchful eye.

 

[dsm-onster]

To lower intake temps you could wrap your exhaust manifold, turbine housing, etc. with heat wrap or get them ceramic coated. You could also use hood vents or something to get rid of the hot air in the engine bay.

To lower the engine temps, hood vents would prob help that as well (it would get the static hot air out from around the engine and more importantly when driving it would probably help to "suck" air through the radiator from the front of the car and out the hood). Also, I have heard that redline water wetter works good at lowering engine temps. You also might just want to change your coolant and clean out your radiator. I think you can use a volt meter to check the coolant to see if it is too old.

Hope this helps.

Bill

If he just goes and gets intake air that is from outside the car then he'll not have to worry about underhood temps at all (unless he's melting wires). Ducting 'covers a multitude of sins'.

There are a few things wrong w/ that log, 8urv8, One being that you ahve a 325 hp dyno pull and a 38 lb/min at peak log!!!

Second, why have they adjusted the maf compensation table when you run a stoct 2g maf? Is your maf hacked? It should read fine to around 500 hp. A VERY respectable number for the street. So if'you've hacked you've need to try to fix that. to make your base tuning saga (globa/deadtime) easier on you.

Third. You're base timing is not indicative of the stock timing map but your timing hasn't been mucked w/ from 5500rpms on. . . what's this mean?

Fourth. Why is your global at -14% for 650s? You should be running at -25% to -27%.

Fith. Your antilag is enabled.

6th. based on the dsmlink settigns, you're ecu is only goign to even start looking for knock after 4500rpms and 90% throttle. I can get enough knock to kill my engine at lower throttle position and lower rpms w/ a bad tune. or just simply now water injection at only 25 psi.

7th. Your cas signal is inverted. Are you running a 1g head and cas?

38 lbs/min is right where 625cc injectors will max aout assumign a decent street tune. This is around 400hp. You should be making more than 327 drive train loss or not. Your injector duty cicle is indicitive of your lb/min airflow. So there's nothing wrong w/ your %IDC for the given lb/min w/ you log. Your timing's really retarded and otherwise the hp numbers look way to conservative to be what you lb/min would indicate.

I'd add timing and check for a boost leak. You're losing airflow somewhere. It's so clear that you're losing air somewhere, I wonder why no one's caught on to this already. Consideringthat your global was set at 14% for 625s you clearly have a substancial boost leak that would cause you to run way lean during closed loop (ltft and stft).

I also find it incriminating that they didn't even log ltft and stft. . .

Also that log only goes to 6900 rpms but you have an 8k rev limit. What's going on after 7K?

Man, it looks like a chimpanzee or perhaps a very intelligent monkey tuned your DSMLink.

You don't have enough cam for a stroker or gt35r. So don't forget to upgrade those soon. If you want to get more out of this turbo w/out having to run crazy enough boost no to be able to run pump gas.

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Once I put the injectors in and get the fuel thing ironed out, when I advance the WOT timing across the board, will it spool the turbo a little faster?

I dont think so. To get your turbo to spool faster, you should retard the iginition timing a little during the turbo spool up. This will help the exhaust gases to be hotter when they leave the combustion chamber, becasue the iginition happens closer to when the exhaust valve opens. The hotter exhaust gases will definetly help it spool faster. If I am wrong please some one correct but I am pretty sure that how it works. Now the amount that you retard it, I am not sure about that.

Bill

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

If he just goes and gets intake air that is from outside the car then he'll not have to worry about underhood temps at all (unless he's melting wires). Ducting 'covers a multitude of sins'.

Good Call.

Bill

 

[dsm-onster]

I dont think so. To get your turbo to spool faster, you should retard the iginition timing a little during the turbo spool up. This will help the exhaust gases to be hotter when they leave the combustion chamber, becasue the iginition happens closer to when the exhaust valve opens. The hotter exhaust gases will definetly help it spool faster. If I am wrong please some one correct but I am pretty sure that how it works. Now the amount that you retard it, I am not sure about that.

Bill

You're on the money.

Also runnign leaner increase EGTs. This will greatly increase spool speeds.

 

[daren_p]

If he just goes and gets intake air that is from outside the car then he'll not have to worry about underhood temps at all (unless he's melting wires). Ducting 'covers a multitude of sins'.

There are a few things wrong w/ that log, 8urv8, One being that you ahve a 325 hp dyno pull and a 38 lb/min at peak log!!!

Second, why have they adjusted the maf compensation table when you run a stoct 2g maf? Is your maf hacked? It should read fine to around 500 hp. A VERY respectable number for the street. So if'you've hacked you've need to try to fix that. to make your base tuning saga (globa/deadtime) easier on you.

Third. You're base timing is not indicative of the stock timing map but your timing hasn't been mucked w/ from 5500rpms on. . . what's this mean?

Fourth. Why is your global at -14% for 650s? You should be running at -25% to -27%.

Fith. Your antilag is enabled.

6th. based on the dsmlink settigns, you're ecu is only goign to even start looking for knock after 4500rpms and 90% throttle. I can get enough knock to kill my engine at lower throttle position and lower rpms w/ a bad tune. or just simply now water injection at only 25 psi.

7th. Your cas signal is inverted. Are you running a 1g head and cas?

38 lbs/min is right where 625cc injectors will max aout assumign a decent street tune. This is around 400hp. You should be making more than 327 drive train loss or not. Your injector duty cicle is indicitive of your lb/min airflow. So there's nothing wrong w/ your %IDC for the given lb/min w/ you log. Your timing's really retarded and otherwise the hp numbers look way to conservative to be what you lb/min would indicate.

I'd add timing and check for a boost leak. You're losing airflow somewhere. It's so clear that you're losing air somewhere, I wonder why no one's caught on to this already. Consideringthat your global was set at 14% for 625s you clearly have a substancial boost leak that would cause you to run way lean during closed loop (ltft and stft).

I also find it incriminating that they didn't even log ltft and stft. . .

Also that log only goes to 6900 rpms but you have an 8k rev limit. What's going on after 7K?

Man, it looks like a chimpanzee or perhaps a very intelligent monkey tuned your DSMLink.

You don't have enough cam for a stroker or gt35r. So don't forget to upgrade those soon. If you want to get more out of this turbo w/out having to run crazy enough boost no to be able to run pump gas.

2nd: He mentioned the lower honeycomb has been removed

7th: Probably: Running a 95 ecu in a 97+ vehicle requires you to invert the CAS

As for his lb/min vs hp, I believe you are saying his airflow numbers are too high for the power he's putting down? If so I was under the impression that 1 lb/min was ~ 10 crank hp & not whp. If this is the case, his lb/min seems about right if you figure somewhere between 15-20% drivetrain loss.

 

[pboglio]

I dont think so. To get your turbo to spool faster, you should retard the iginition timing a little during the turbo spool up. This will help the exhaust gases to be hotter when they leave the combustion chamber, becasue the iginition happens closer to when the exhaust valve opens. The hotter exhaust gases will definetly help it spool faster. If I am wrong please some one correct but I am pretty sure that how it works. Now the amount that you retard it, I am not sure about that.

Bill

From a real world perspective, you want more timing on the low end. 2gen cars have an absolutely crappy timing curve. Bumping up the timing curve on the low end really helps the motor create torque it will be noticeable. I think I added 6* of timing on top of the stock curve below 4500 rpm, which helps the car pull out of slow corners quite nicely without downshifting.

Leaning the motor on the LOW end in my experience hurts power there. My engine likes to run fat from idle to BEFORE the turbo spools fully and then lean from there to redline.

You wanna really spool the turbo faster, then go speed density and ditch the MAF sensor. The top end goes up quite a bit, but also part throttle response/power is nuts. It takes very little throttle to spool the turbo and even 5 lbs of boost makes the car move like a v8.

When my car is tuned well, I ignore the boost gauge compeletely.