Dipstick shooting out under boost

[Riceless92TSI]

I just had my blocked honed and had new rings put on now when im under boost my oil stick shoots out. Thats a sign of blow bye right and if so what do you think happened because they just put new rings on. Can i replace rings with motor in the car by taking off the head and oil pan and pushing the piston up and out.

 

[TSITurbo95]

What's the condition of your head? Do a leak down and determin where it's coming from. My bet is the valve stem seals. . . And to answer your question, yes you can change them with the motor in the car. Remove head and oil pan and push them up and out.

 

[mattrcspeed]

its either your rings , or valves . do a compression test make sure to note the numbers , then do the test again but before you crank put about 2 caps of oil in the spark plug hole and see what the numbers are then . if its a big difference then its your rings if not then your valves

 

[Riceless92TSI]

I checked the head when it was off the car and it looked good but something could of happened when putting it back on

im going to try put oil in the plugs tomorrow and hope its not the rings. Thanks ill let you guys know what the results are

 

[Cobo's Customs]

its either your rings , or valves . do a compression test make sure to note the numbers , then do the test again but before you crank put about 2 caps of oil in the spark plug hole and see what the numbers are then . if its a big difference then its your rings if not then your valves

there is no way possible for your head to cause the blowby that would make a dipstick pop out. That would have to be the pistons/rings. Think about it.... If the head had a bad valve then it would leak compression into the exhaust or intake manifold if it was a cracked head it would be symptoms of a bad head gasket like overheating, misfire, coolant outta the tailpipe etc.... Its gotta be below the head. Yes you can replace pistons and rings with the engine in the car just gotta pull the head off and the oil pan off and pull them out the top. If you just had this job done then there are probably some other issues like they took too much off with the hone, or they didn't gap the rings right, or the pistons had excessive wear and were re used anyways with new rings hoping for the best. I hope this info helps you

 

[H@xtGSX]

The valve guides and seals wear out too. They probably needed changing just as much as your rings did, so now that you have a nice, sealed compression chamber (assuming the rings were installed correctly and weren't secretly switched out with Silly Putty so the mechanic could rake in a few hundred profit for no extra cost), the pressure from your boost is filling the valve cover, heading down the drain, and blowing out the dipstick... Although, I doubt the valve guides would let that much pressure by unless they are really beat up. If this were the case, you could relieve this problem temporarily by just taking the hose off the PCV recirculation circuit going back to the intake, behind the MAF, and plugging the nipple on the intake. You can get those little clamp on filters to keep stuff out of the valve cover in the perfomance aisle (ie. the pretty useless V8 dress up and Ricer doodads aisle) of Autozone and stick it on the valve cover nipple. That ought to release some of the pressure... But it may not be enough if you're getting a massive amount of blow by, but if that was the case, you'd not be getting much boost pressure either. Honestly though, unless there is a problem with the recirc line to the intake too though, this shouldn't be necessary.

Personally, I am betting something was goofed up with the rings... Just because I haven't heard of the dipstick being blown out from problems with much else other than the rings, but it is possible for the valve to wear enough to allow that sort of leak. Your best bet would be a real leak down test. There are a few ways the pressure can get to the crank case, but because it happens on boost, it tends to point to rings and valve seals.

there is no way possible for your head to cause the blowby that would make a dipstick pop out. That would have to be the pistons/rings. Think about it.... If the head had a bad valve then it would leak compression into the exhaust or intake manifold if it was a cracked head it would be symptoms of a bad head gasket like overheating, misfire, coolant outta the tailpipe etc.... Its gotta be below the head.

There is more to it that that. It has little to do with how the valves seat. Every valve still has a gap that pressure can escape up from at each valve stem, straight into the valve cover. Depending on the condition of the gas evacuation equipment in the head, it is quite possible to build up enough pressure in the block to blow out the dipstick without having blown out rings. I know it wouldn't take a hell of a lot of pressure to blow my dipstick out... It comes out rather easily.
(That looks like one hell of a big turbo with your swapped motor BTW... looks interesting)

 

[crazyquik22023]

It's definitely less common in DSM's but I have seen it happen a few times myself in evos. Buschur sells a part for evos to stop this..I'm sure you could make it work on a DSM as well. Might as well give it a try for $5 right?

https://secure.buschurracing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=946&osCsid=238d4145f967af6cef5b65bfbbe518ff

 

[rw87tt]

Just get a spring that is used on a carburator throttle shaft return and hook it to your dip stick. Use your imagination. I've been using one for years.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Just get a spring that is used on a carburator throttle shaft return and hook it to your dip stick. Use your imagination. I've been using one for years.

... I shouldn't poke fun... Mine is secured with a short hook made from a piece of copper wire I scrounged out of some old Romex.

 

[Cobo's Customs]

There is more to it that that. It has little to do with how the valves seat. Every valve still has a gap that pressure can escape up from at each valve stem, straight into the valve cover. Depending on the condition of the gas evacuation equipment in the head, it is quite possible to build up enough pressure in the block to blow out the dipstick without having blown out rings. I know it wouldn't take a hell of a lot of pressure to blow my dipstick out... It comes out rather easily.
(That looks like one hell of a big turbo with your swapped motor BTW... looks interesting)[/QUOTE]

you have a good point i never would have thought of. I have never seen that happen before but i do believe it to be very possible. the dipstick hook will work for a while till it gets worse then it will pop out the oil seals under the timing cover.... this i do know for a fact cause i just did all of them on a customer car and then got the call about the dipstick . and yeah my turbo is oversized but their are alot of airflow mods done to the engine so it spools very quick for its size and makes great power at low boost.

see it here if you want
7 psi boost on 92 trim turbo on 4 cyl eclipse with n/a ecu DSM! - YouTube

 

[91stocker]

Why has no one mentioned a catch can set up?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/custom-fabrication/402801-calan-catch-cans.html

The spring on the dipstick is just a band aid and not a fix for an actual problem.

 

[herms99gst]

Run a leak down test its the only real way to find out. Pull your intake off and crack the tb and if you here hissing ita the valve stem seals. But putting 2&2 together it prob ia your rings not sealing due to a bad hone, improper ring gap, or badly worn pistons. Did you properly break in the rings?

 

[007jimmy]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

Nuff said...

 

[mattasi]

You need to look into lowering your crank case pressure. The link above will explain it all, really good write up by Craig. I ordered my can a few weeks ago and look forward to hooking it all up.

 

[JusMX141]

see it here if you want

Just curious- what the HELL is a 92-trim turbo? At a trim level of 0 the wheel would be flat....and at a trim level of 100, the inducer and exducer would be the same spec.


"TRIM" is term unique only to Garretts that is used to designate a series of compressor with the same exducer. For example, a T04E50 Garrett is a T04E-model turbo with a 50-trim compressor wheel. There are 46, 50, 54, 57, and 60-trim wheels available in the T04E lineup.

The only reason I'm asking is because a 92-trim turbo doesn't exist. Anywhere.

 

[crazyquik22023]

Λ I was thinking the exact same thing.. 92 trim WTF

 

[Cobo's Customs]

Just curious- what the HELL is a 92-trim turbo? At a trim level of 0 the wheel would be flat....and at a trim level of 100, the inducer and exducer would be the same spec.


"TRIM" is term unique only to Garretts that is used to designate a series of compressor with the same exducer. For example, a T04E50 Garrett is a T04E-model turbo with a 50-trim compressor wheel. There are 46, 50, 54, 57, and 60-trim wheels available in the T04E lineup.

The only reason I'm asking is because a 92-trim turbo doesn't exist. Anywhere.

this is the info they gave me when i bought the turbo.

Compressor:
•Trim: 69
•A/R: .66
•Inducer: 68.7
•Exducer: 97.8

Turbine:
•Trim: 92
•A/R: 1.05
•Inducer: 87.4
•Exducer: 77

and it was labled ""92 trim t4 turbo"

here is a pic of the actual turbo before i installed it:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[JusMX141]

It came from China- no wonder. The Chinese have creative ways of marketing items that do not exist...like the way they label the turbine housing on Chinese Evo III 16G's as ".70 a/r" even though it's cast directly from a 7cm (.49 a/r) Evo III turbine housing.


Let's have some fun, shall we? Just like 11th grade Trig, I'll even show my work.

Turbine Trim = (Exducer² / Inducer&#178 x 100

(77² / 87.4&#178 x 100.

(5929 / 7638.76) x 100

0.7761 x 100

Turbine Trim = 77. So they're full of shit.


Moral of the story- don't take what's stated in the eBay listing for granted.

 

[Cobo's Customs]

It came from China- no wonder. The Chinese have creative ways of marketing items that do not exist...like the way they label the turbine housing on Chinese Evo III 16G's as ".70 a/r" even though it's cast directly from a 7cm (.49 a/r) Evo III turbine housing.


Let's have some fun, shall we? Just like 11th grade Trig, I'll even show my work.

Turbine Trim = (Exducer² / Inducer²) x 100

(77² / 87.4²) x 100.

(5929 / 7638.76) x 100

0.7761 x 100

Turbine Trim = 77. So they're full of shit.


Moral of the story- don't take what's stated in the eBay listing for granted.

thats good info to know. Thanks for the teaching but to me the moral of the story is that it is exactly the right amount of turbo for what I wanted, its extremely dependable, I use the same turbo on my supra as well, and both cars are getting great mileage, and are extremely fast for having cast internals with n/a computers.

 

[JusMX141]

thats good info to know. Thanks for the teaching but to me the moral of the story is that it is exactly the right amount of turbo for what I wanted, its extremely dependable, I use the same turbo on my supra as well, and both cars are getting great mileage, and are extremely fast for having cast internals with n/a computers.

In the video I can hear the wastegate opening around 5500, giving you about 1500-1700rpms of boosted power before you hit the rev limiter. While I agree that's a fine feat for a N/A ECU and cast internals, I'll also explain that a smaller and quicker-spooling turbo would also benefit you by giving you more boosted RPMs even at a safe level of 10psi or below. The turbo you're using is far too large for the application.

...and now that the thread has gone entirely off-topic, I'll go ahead and toss it in the Graveyard for the original poster's obvious lack of searching which would have discovered a merged thread on the exact same topic containing piles of information that was likely suggested as they were creating this very thread we're posting in.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...-popping-blow-blowing-blew-out-merged-18.html

 

[Calan]

I just had my blocked honed and had new rings put on now when im under boost my oil stick shoots out.

I'm a bit amazed that nobody has asked this yet, but how many miles do you have on the re-ringed block? Until the rings seat (assuming you break them in properly), you are going to have blowby. It's normal.

But...if you break the motor in properly, it shouldn't last for more than 50 miles or so at the most. If you don't break it in properly, then you can glaze the cylinders and the blowby will be there until you re-ring it again.

Do a leak-down test like herms99gst mentioned, and figure out where your excessive crankcase pressure is coming from.

 

[BogusSVO]

The valve guides and seals wear out too. They probably needed changing just as much as your rings did,



There is more to it that that. It has little to do with how the valves seat. Every valve still has a gap that pressure can escape up from at each valve stem, straight into the valve cover. Depending on the condition of the gas evacuation equipment in the head, it is quite possible to build up enough pressure in the block to blow out the dipstick without having blown out rings. I know it wouldn't take a hell of a lot of pressure to blow my dipstick out... It comes out rather easily.

WOW....So you are saying worn guides can cause a popped out dipstick??

Where to start.....

Yes there is a "gap" as you call it, but the clearance between the valve stem and guide is appox .002 on the intake and about .003 on the exhaust side.

Even without a seal, thats a small orface for compressed air to pass, Makes me wonder what the CFM rate would be.

Now by the time the guides get worn say to .006 clearance, the seal will start to unload on one side of the seal, allowing oil to flow down the stem.

By the time you get .010 guide clearance, the valve is bouncing around and not seating properly, and you have an intermitted skip/miss to the engine.

So I do not see anyway the worn guides can let enough compressed air under boost flow enough CFM to pressurize the head and block and over run the PCV system so it has to relive itself by popping out the dipstick.

For it to come close, IMHO, the valve could not be in any guide, and the guide itself would have to be out of the head casting.

Some measurements

Used 6T Intake stem .259
Used 6T Exhaust stem .2577

Used guide I .261
Used guide E .263

So thats .003 on the intake cleance and .0053 on the exhaust

NEW EPN (Engnbldr) Valve stem
Intake .259
Exhaust .2585

EPN bronze guides
Intake .2598
Exhaust .2585

Replacement cast iron
Intake .2603
I am out of CI exhausts at this time to measure


So Has anyone measured the volume of the spring area of the head?


OP.. have you tried just installing a new or diffrent dipstick?

 

[Calan]

Yep. Rings would be much more likely.