diesel tractor turbo?

[bigal07]

I have a friends dad that owns a tractor repair shop and was looking around the other day and saw that he had about 10 amazing looking turbos sitting around collecting dust, around the size of a 50 or 60 trim garrett, im going to look up the serial numbers soon. My questions are being that they were pulled of tractors they dont have as many rpm's going through them than an eclipse running 6 or 7 thousand. I also noticed they were all just oil cooled, not water and oil, is there any way to make that work out? I also know there would be a lot of custom fab welding but that can be done. Any input would be great, i'd like to go with something crazy with my car.

 

[AWD_DSM08]

well all I will say is look at other options. And what mods are on the car right now?

 

[knochgoon24]

Holset turbos are growing in popularity for our cars. They are from a 5.9L turbo diesel yet still produce great spool times. Just do a search on this forum for "Holset Turbos".

Turbos only need oil for cooling and lubrication. Water-cooling is more "daily-driver" friendly because it keeps the center cartridge cooler, preventing coking (the burning of oil in the turbo oil passages). As long as you don't do a pull then immediately shut the car off, you'll be fine without water cooling.

EDIT: I'm not saying the turbos that you have are Holsets, only that they are also diesel turbos. Post up some pictures and compressor/turbine measurements to get a better idea of what your have.

 

[bigal07]

I have all the supporting mods, 2.3 stroker, act 2900, fidanza flywheel, 880cc's, walbro 255, dsmlink, full 3 inch exhaust, boost controller, fmic, 272's, bunch more stuff.. I could just get a pte 60 trim for 1100 bucks but why waste the money when i have perfectly good turbos staring at me? If i need to i could rebuild the turbo to put a different shaft to be able to stand the higher rpms of a gasoline motor but im not sure if itd really need it..

 

[JusMX141]

Serial numbers probably won't tell you anything regarding wheel size of these turbos.

They probably have a T4-flanged turbine housing to suit the displacement of the diesel engine. This will need to be changed or you'll be rewarded with full boost around 500rpms before redline.

Diesel turbos rarely have the need for water cooling because they operate at a much lower temperature than a turbo on a gasoline engine. This doesn't mean that oil coking or turbine warpage isn't possible following a hot shutdown, just FAR less likely than with a gasoline engine because of the lower overall temperatures.

Of all the journal bearing Garrett turbos I've rebuilt for DSMers, only a handful have had the provision for water lines. As long as you allow a proper cooldown period or have a turbo timer, you'll be fine with one of these on your car. If you live in the city, you may not even need to let it cool down as it's practially impossible to rip up to your house and full boost and shut it down on streets with a 25mph speed limit.


Depending on what size these turbos are, you can find either a Garrett T3 turbine housing and switch your manifold (recommended) or use a DSM Bolt-On style turbine housing if it's available. The DSM Bolt-On turbine housings aren't recommended for those looking to get the most out a Garrett turbine wheel as they can hinder flow at high boost levels.

Other than that, follow one the numerous illustrated install guides out there for T3/T4 Hybrid turbos like this one from a fellow Wiseman:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...anifold-t3-t4-turbo-tial-38mm-waste-gate.html

I could just get a pte 60 trim for 1100 bucks but why waste the money when i have perfectly good turbos staring at me? If i need to i could rebuild the turbo to put a different shaft to be able to stand the higher rpms of a gasoline motor but im not sure if itd really need it..

If I had $1100 to spend on a turbo it would NOT be PTE-branded.

You'll need to change the turbine housing, not the turbine shaft. If it's set up for a diesel engine, it's designed for an engine that produces a high volume of cool exhaust....your car will do the opposite.

 

[knochgoon24]

I have all the supporting mods, 2.3 stroker, act 2900, fidanza flywheel, 880cc's, walbro 255, dsmlink, full 3 inch exhaust, boost controller, fmic, 272's, bunch more stuff.. I could just get a pte 60 trim for 1100 bucks but why waste the money when i have perfectly good turbos staring at me? If i need to i could rebuild the turbo to put a different shaft to be able to stand the higher rpms of a gasoline motor but im not sure if itd really need it..

The turbo won't spin faster on a gas motor. Diesel gasses are cold and slow moving, and large engines have a lot of exhaust, like the turbo I mentioned before from a 5.9L diesel. Gas engines on the other hand, have hotter, faster moving exhaust, but there isn't as much of it.

What people are finding is that some large displacement diesel turbos happen to work quite well on a higher RPM 4-cylinder 2.x L cars, like DSMs. The new turbine materials can tolerate the higher temperatures of gasoline exhaust quite well.

These diesel turbos often sell pretty cheaply used ($100-300) and can be rebuilt in an a few hours with a $75 rebuild kit. Since they are designed to run the high boost pressures on diesels (30, 35, 40 psi, +) they are great for people on a budget build. Some brands are known to be fine after being used on a diesel for 150,000 miles or more, but a rebuild is still usually recommended.

 

[bigal07]

knochgoon sorry about that reply right after yours, i was replying to the post before yours, thanks a lot to you and jusmx, thats the info i was looking for, im going to try and find out a little more about the turbos first, thanks

 

[nate379]

cold and slow moving diesel exhaust? I don't know what is considered normal EGTs on a gasser, but I hit 1800*+ on my Cummins truck while sled pulling or drag racing.

 

[PIMking]

cold and slow moving diesel exhaust? I don't know what is considered normal EGTs on a gasser, but I hit 1800*+ on my Cummins truck while sled pulling or drag racing.

On my Cat in my dumptruck loaded weighing 70k gross i'm right around 1,000* if I get to 12-13k I will change the filter because it's has too much restriction.

 

[JusMX141]

The Cat in my father's Freightliner is happy with EGT's around 950*-1000*f. The probe is the downpipe about 6" after the turbine housing.

 

[PIMking]

The Cat in my father's Freightliner is happy with EGT's around 950*-1000*f. The probe is the downpipe about 6" after the turbine housing.

that is were mine is...

I love the pyrometer

 

[nate379]

For one reason or another lot of the stock pyros are post turbo, though pre turbo is more important. 1000* post turbo is around 1800* pre-turbo.

 

[reardrv]

I'd definetly do it if you can get thde turbo for free or cheap, I know someone who built a pontiac sunfire that ran 12's using the turbo off of a front end loader. However it did blow up shortly after .

 

[knochgoon24]

cold and slow moving diesel exhaust? I don't know what is considered normal EGTs on a gasser, but I hit 1800*+ on my Cummins truck while sled pulling or drag racing.

I've never owned a diesel. I've just always heard it described as being colder. Don't know why. I could be wrong (as it seems I am) by saying colder. My bad.

 

[Wicked_Sick]

Are they small enough to fit into your bay?

You will most likely need a new housing for it so that you dont have to wait til 6k to boost.

 

[dsmusmc]

Isnt the Wh1c (same as Holset hx35) a tractor turbo? See if you can find one of thoughs.

 

[pullerfan]

haha your really takin this serious i thought you were just messin with me and the old man when you first started.. (o yea i'm the friend)..
to wicked sick: no there not small, and yes we know were gonna have to custom fab something to make this work, but hey if we get it all figured out it will be a lot cheaper HP

 

[bigal07]

I dont joke about massive turbos sitting on a shelf collecting dust, it should be a crime, we'll put one on ## gst and make it crankwalk a little quicker ha, if only you could shift now

 

[alansupra94]

I wonder what kind of exhaust housing those things have.......

 

[pullerfan]

i'm not sure of what the exhaust housing is on them, we haven't look that far into this whole thing, hopefully we can get some more answers on this by the end of the week.

ha, yea maybe we shouldn't have touched my shift linkage. when you try to fix one thing, another thing takes a crap on these cars.. o well

 

[bigal07]

well just at a glimse it looked like a t3/t4 but we'll figure it out soon, if thats the case then i can buy a bolt up manifold with external wastegate and then have to custon make the o2 housing

 

[pullerfan]

i've got plently of welders, benders, scrap metal, ect. we wil eventually figure something out

 

[JusMX141]

For one reason or another lot of the stock pyros are post turbo, though pre turbo is more important. 1000* post turbo is around 1800* pre-turbo.

I've always understood there to be a 200*-250*f difference in EGT due to probe placement; I've never heard of it differing as much as 800*. Not saying you're wrong, but that sounds like a case of too much turbine housing restriction if your temps are that much different.

Every former diesel turbo I've rebuilt for customers had black soot all over the turbine wheel, where every gasoline turbo I've rebuilt that came from a well-tuned car was white with carbon. This tells me that a gasoline engine is allowing the turbine wheel to see much more heat than the diesel engine.

 

[nate379]

No, not the same. The HX35 is an upgrade to the WH1C. That one came on 89-93 Cummins
HX35 94-02... though HY35 was used on auto trans trucks for 00-02 (I think those are the right years)

I'm sure they were used on tractors, backhoes, water pumps, gen sets, etc... pretty much anything that uses a Cummins 6BT or Cummins ISB

Isnt the Wh1c (same as Holset hx35) a tractor turbo? See if you can find one of thoughs.

 

[dsmusmc]

No, not the same. The HX35 is an upgrade to the WH1C. That one came on 89-93 Cummins
HX35 94-02... though HY35 was used on auto trans trucks for 00-02 (I think those are the right years)

I'm sure they were used on tractors, backhoes, water pumps, gen sets, etc... pretty much anything that uses a Cummins 6BT or Cummins ISB

I thought they were the same compressor blade just different housings.