Designing a t3 twin scroll manifold

[imagine-02]

Even though I’ve been using SolidWorks for a couple years now, I recently learned how to do piping the easy way for manifolds and stuff.

This is my first attempt at a manifold. It’s a t3 twin scroll. I didn’t add the wastgates yet. I would like to keep it true twin scroll, so I would either use two wastegates or just one with a divided pipe.

I haven’t made a custom piping size for the program to use yet, so I just used one of the defaults, 1.5 sch40 pipe. Which is 1.9” outer diameter and 1.61” inner.
What does anyone suggest I use for a piping size? Keep in mind when I make it for real I would like to use mild steel “steam pipe.”

I don’t have dimensions for a wastgate flange so if anyone could measure theirs or knows the dimensions, that would be greaaat.
I’m thinking about a size 40 Tial (non v-band for now). I just need the outer dimensions of the flange and the center hole size.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Natedsmeclipse]

way to many spots to weld you need to make it with as few welds as possible. look at the top view picture with the tube all the way to the right you could cut out half of all those bends and put in one straight tube.

 

[DSM nOOb]

Agreed on the too many welds. Also you are not going to want to modify your 90's or your 45's it is extremely hard to accurately modify them from a design in SW. Also sch.40 is unnecessary sch.10 will be plenty strong as long as you backpurge the welds.

These are the dimensions and elbows I would use you can order them from their website. I have always used these and had no issues. I would highly recommended using stainless not mild steel.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[imagine-02]

Thanks for the tips and info.
I want to make it out of mild first because of cost. If I end up with a good working design, then I'll go with SS.
What degree should I radius the bends? Right now they are at 1".

 

[DSM nOOb]

2 and 1/4 inch. 1 inch is way to sharp not to mention it will be extremely expensive if you can even find that pipe with those specifications. I know for fact a sch.10 1.5 inch 90 elbow with a 1.5 radius is like 45 bucksthat's in stainless of course.

 

[imagine-02]

I wasn't able to make the custom piping template (1.9"OD/1.682"ID) work yet, so I'm still using the default size for designing. I did make the bends 2.25" this time though.
This time I went with a ram horn style to see if that would work out better. Having to make either runner 1 or 2 cross over the others is a pain when trying to make a good design!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[talonDSMerr]

Be careful with the way you route the number 4 runner. You want to take into consideration the compressor housing of the turbo and create enough clearance for it.

 

[SlowChild3]

When you say divided pipe for WG do you mean a flange like the twin scroll flange? Does the WG seal good enough at the base of WG flange so it doesn't cross over? What are the runner lengths?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Strm Trpr]

There have been dyno tests and results have been posted that 1.25" ID Sch 10 pipe is good for up to 700whp.

Shearer Fabrications - Products

My bottom mount divided T4 exhaust manifold will be made out of 1.25" ID tubing for my new Borg Warner EFR7670!

Should spool off idle...

Another thing, 4 cylinder turbo charged engines do not need to keep all the runners as equal length as possible. It's definitely not like N/A V8 muscle car headers where they tune the length of the runner to tailor the torque the motor makes.
Our engines are Force Fed, and in a TS set-up, one runner is smacking the turbine wheel at a time anyway...

***Edit*** NVRMND
There are many ways to model this, and the last thing I want to do when I get home is jump back on a PC and use Pro/E...

 

[imagine-02]

When you say divided pipe for WG do you mean a flange like the twin scroll flange? Does the WG seal good enough at the base of WG flange so it doesn't cross over? What are the runner lengths?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I didn't measure the runner lengths. I'm just trying to get a good general design down right now.
My engine isn't in my car right now, so I don't really know the exact dimensions I have to work with in the engine bay.

The single wastegate design for twin scroll looks like this,

Google Image Result for http://www.mpfab.com/gallery/Albums/Album6/Large/DSCF0004_edited_1.jpg

 

[imagine-02]

New design!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

What should the distance be from the back side of the turbo flange to the back side of the head flange? I want to design it so it has plenty of room for big turbos like my hx35.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

What should the distance be from the bottom side of the turbo flange to the bottom side of the head flange?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[KyDSM]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I would make it a bit shorter. But this one if the best out of the ones you've made up so far.

 

[Mr Peepers]

The last one looks great! I would be a little concerned on the drain line height and the compressor housing hitting the front motor mount. Two of the main obstacles for turbo placement were the front motor mount bracket and front balance shaft hump on the block for me.

You could consider joining the two paired cylinders before the collector to free up some routing space; check out Kiggly's manifold setup:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Strm Trpr]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I would make it a bit shorter. But this one if the best out of the ones you've made up so far.

Typically the turbo mounting flange and the bottom surface of the head flange are close to being co-planar.

Check out these pics of the Punishment Racing Divided T3 manifold.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

And these of the JMF Divided T3 Manifold.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

 

[Imback]

That looks so tight

 

[okcpopeman]

On the last one you designed, how do you plan to make those long sweeping bends? And the turbo will be way to far down the way it is currently. I like what you are doing though!

 

[FLASH1970]

looks pretty good. 3D sketching on Solidworks is awesome. Have you tried playing around with splines? There's a lot you can do with them but it can be tricky to get them to cooperate. .

 

[imagine-02]

Thanks for the comments.
I changed the collector quite a bit so it looks more like a typical collector. I also realized that I can delete straight lines that aren't needed in between curves. Makes it look much smoother.

How does STM Corey's turbo drain work since his turbo is so low?
I've thought about joining the two pairs before the collector, but I just haven't had time to model it. I have like 30 different manifold ideas that I want to model, but need better dimensions and time.
I've used splines, but not with making manifolds. 3D sketching is already hard enough.
All the bends are radiused with the same dimension (2.25"). The long sweeping bends shouldn't be a problem since they are all the same radius. If it's too long for one piece, I can just put two together. That's how some ram horn manifolds are.

 

[talonDSMerr]

I believe Corey's turbo drains with a scavenging pump, like most turbo setups that are placed at or below the oil pan.

Are you planning on building one of these after you settle on a final design?

 

[imagine-02]

Yeah when I have the money for a new welder and piping I plan on building one.
Then I'm going to design and build a manifold and piping for a compound system.

 

[imagine-02]

Made another new one. The turbo flange is up higher this time.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Looks great, but that number 4 runner is going to hit the bottom of the hood.
Especially on a 2g.

 

[imagine-02]

How many inches do 2g's have between the top of the head flange and the hood? Since my engine isn't in, I can't measure.

On this last manifold, the distance from the top of the head flange to the top of the #4 runner is under 6 inches.