Cylinders 1 & 4 Not working?

[TheBoogieBot]

Hello everyone,

I am new to DSM's. I have only had my 1998 Eclipse GSX for a couple of days. I got the car for what I believe to be a good deal. The only thing is that cylinders 1 and 4 are not working.

The coil packs have been replaced and swapped around to verify that they are good. I have also swapped around the spark plug wires to make sure that they are good. I also replaced the cam sensor, and pulled the ECU and it looks fine.

Is the crank sensor the only thing left to change out?

I appreciate any help I can get. If anyone would like to take a second look at the ECU I can take a couple pics and post them up. Or maybe a quick HD Video and post it on YouTube.

Thank you in advance for any help.

 

[dwsjr15]

First thing is there a check engine, light if not then make sure your getting fuel to the cylinders, if your getting fuel then do a compresion test to be sure your rings are not fried. Also your car may not start if your crank sensor is bad.

 

[TheBoogieBot]

First thing is there a check engine, light if not then make sure your getting fuel to the cylinders, if your getting fuel then do a compresion test to be sure your rings are not fried. Also your car may not start if your crank sensor is bad.

The Check engine light is on. I'll have to buy a gauge to check the compression.

Can you think of anything else that might cause these problems?

 

[luv2rallye]

Test your power transistors: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/229419-how-test-power-transistors.html

 

[jimmy427]

How do you know that cylinder 1 and 4 are not fireing is there no spark or no fuel or could even be compression. just would like to know how you found out.

im not completly sure but i think crank sensor controls spark and cam sensor controls fuel

 

[TheBoogieBot]

Test your power transistors: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/229419-how-test-power-transistors.html

The previous owner just told me that the power transistor was also just replaced.

Is that also called the ignition control module? That's what autozone called it.

Thank you.

How do you know that cylinder 1 and 4 are not fireing is there no spark or no fuel or could even be compression. just would like to know how you found out.

im not completly sure but i think crank sensor controls spark and cam sensor controls fuel

I know that there is spark because I pulled all of the spark plugs and layed them on my valve cover. 2 & 3 sparked, 1 & 4 didnt. I also pulled the fuel rail completly out had a friend crank the car and all four injectors fired. I know its getting fuel. Just no spark in 1 & 4.

 

[Below Ambient]

If the owner fixed the problem previously then chances are the REAL problem wasn't fixed... I'd be getting my multimeter out and double-checking everything in that area... can you pull any codes off it?

 

[luv2rallye]

Is that also called the ignition control module? 2 & 3 sparked, 1 & 4 didnt.

Yes but check their connectors and test them anyway - sometimes new ones don't work. 1 & 4 not working is your classic power transistor, coil, or CAS problem (maybe even ECU but that's least likely).

 

[TheBoogieBot]

Yes but check their connectors and test them anyway - sometimes new ones don't work. 1 & 4 not working is your classic power transistor, coil, or CAS problem (maybe even ECU but that's least likely).

You guys are awesome. Fastest responses I've ever seen on any forums. I'm on Supraforums and they are pretty quick too, but not like this.

luv2rallye I will try to check everything over again and I'll also order the CAS.

I pulled the ECU and I thought that it looked fine. I brought it in to work to show some of the Aircraft Electricians, and a couple of them thought that it looked a little corroded because of that yellowish, brown stuff that the board seems to be coated in (Luckily for me I used the search button and found that was normal).

Another guy that I work with supposedly has a computer to pull the error code so I'll see what pops up on there and get back to you guys when I know more.

Thank You again for all your help.

 

[TheBoogieBot]

Here's a quick update.
I hooked up a computer and checked for codes. It popped up with P0300 (Random Misfire)

I've done a bunch of searching around and I've noticed that pretty much everyone else starts swapping all of the parts that I have already swapped out.

The last thing to swap out is the Crank Position Sensor. I have a friend coming over Friday to help me Check the power transistor. If that's good then I'll order the CPS.

I'm also going to borrow a friends 1997 GST ECU and make sure my ECU is good.

 

[Maverick4g63]

Use a test light to verify if the coil trigger pulses are leaving the ecu on pins 10 and 23.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[TheBoogieBot]

"Use a test light to verify if the coil trigger pulses are leaving the ecu on pins 10 and 23".

Wow thank you very much for that diagram Maverick4g63. If I don't have a test light can I just use my ohm meter? If I can what should I be looking for?

 

[Maverick4g63]

No your meter wont be able to display the pulses that fast. Run to autozone or any parts store and pick up a test light. Once you have done that, we can continue troubleshooting.

 

[TheBoogieBot]

Ok...well I got the test light to come on when I hooked it to the power supply...and nothing on 10...I got no light on 23 also, but the car wouldn't start when the tester was in 23 ... I pulled the tester out of the pin hole while my friend was turning the key from the passangers seat and the car started, but still no light on 23 or 10 , but light came on on 12 and 25 ....

 

[Maverick4g63]

Attach the test light to a chassis ground and retest the ign transistor pins.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok...well I got the test light to come on when I hooked it to the power supply...and nothing on 10...I got no light on 23 also, but the car wouldn't start when the tester was in 23 ... I pulled the tester out of the pin hole while my friend was turning the key from the passangers seat and the car started, but still no light on 23 or 10 , but light came on on 12 and 25 ....

You cannot put a tester light on pin 10 or 23 because it is too much load (and in fact would take the signal away from the power transistor on that wire). If you want to use a tester with everything hooked up on the car put it on the coil's pin 1 or 2 (coil primarys).
Did you test the power transistor off the car as in my article?
Pins 12 and 25 are the ECU power so of course the light would come on there.
You can never use a tester light on the input/output signals of sensor signals (eg. CAS, CPS, power transistor, ECU, etc). You can put it on the 12v power to those devices just to make so there's power there however.

 

[Maverick4g63]

My led test light will indicate the ign transistor pulses from the ecu. I suppose I have a special device?

 

[luv2rallye]

leds draw very little power so you can get away with it. But they are also polorized so won't light at all if the voltage across them is backwards. Also because they draw so little they are not useful at all for finding a true power wire (they light on anything over 1.4v) which often people use them for. They then wonder why what they just hooked up to that newly discovered wire the tester lit on, doesn't work right or another thing on that circuit (eg. radio) now doesn't work right. All because it really is a control wire (not a true power wire) but the led lights anyway.

 

[Maverick4g63]

This led burns green when the polarity is reversed. I am also quite aware of gauging differences and amperage requirements of devices. I typically work with 480vac and 500vdc industrial equipnent.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok - I don't have an led tester because I work with micro electronics and can never afford to load the circuit down. Your led tester sounds like it is designed to draw very little power (high impedance) and even detect small voltage pulses - great! Most people who tell me they have an led tester mean they literally are connecting 1 led onto the circuit which loads down small voltage high impedance circuits.
Either that or they are trying to find a 12v power source with a real high impedance led tester like yours and so will read 12v on control wires as well as power wires and so incorrectly connect their radio to it.

 

[Maverick4g63]

It seems I stumbled onto a handy little tester. I will be sure to hang on to it.

 

[TheBoogieBot]

Ok i've got another update. After trying the Test light I bought and not getting any lights to come on other than for the ECU Power, I went ahead and swapped out the ECU. It fired right up. I checked everything over and I now have all 4 cylinders operating normally.

However, I started thinking what would make an ECU go bad? Maybe a bad ground wire somewhere? So I popped the hood and just started looking around.

I came across this. I'm not sure where it goes? It's right above the alternator, does anyone know where it goes?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Maverick4g63]

Does your oil pressure gauge register?

 

[TheBoogieBot]

Does your oil pressure gauge register?

Yeah it works. I have no clue where this plug goes...?

 

[luv2rallye]

Looks like the oil light pressure warning switch.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68187&d=1159354383