Cyclone Intake Manifold..where Can I Get A Gasket Or Make One ???!?!

[sweet97]

Where is the white/green vacuum canister located in respect to the manifold? Is it part of the manifold proper or does it sit on the firewall or inner fender? Thanks, mark
I'm interested in finding one but would like a pic of what to look for besides the script. mark

 

[keltalon]

I went to Turbotrix Racing yesterday with DSM90AWD and a wiseman and had my car tuned on their dyno using 93 octane. Check out my profile for my mods. I need to get the raw data from them and post the HP and Torque curves, but here is the lowdown:

With the cyclone operational, I had a max of 40 ft-lb increase in torque at 3700rpm and a 28HP increase vs the holding the secondaries open. They reached the same peak torque, the active cyclone run reaching 390 ft-lbs 100rpms sooner (at 4500rpm). My HP hit 400 at 5600rpm and basically stayed there through 7000rpm, peaking at 410. This was at 22psi with a mild heat port and HKS 264 cams. I never touched the cam gear settings. I had the secondaries open at 7psi at any rpm. I'd like to play around with that a bit and see the effect. Mark French did the tuning, and he was pleasantly surprised about the cyclone, and commented that the 264's were the perfect cams for that intake.

I'm happy with the results, this is a real torque monster. And my 2.4 didn't break. This is a very conservative tune, no knock. I'm going to play around and re-install my water injection after the motor is really broken in, and play with the boost slightly.

Ken

nice numbers ken! do you have the dyno sheet so we can look at the hp curve comparason?

 

[kengsx]

Lot's of time has passed, I haven't even thought about the cyclone or even driven the car much. I finally received, after about a year, the dyno output so presumably I can plot the results using Dynojet software (http://www.dynojet.com/downloads/software.aspx).

 

[DSM90AWD]

Ken, pretty easy to use that software to overlay runs. Gimme a shout if you need a hand

 

[gsxeclipse97]

thats great i will be using the cyclone on my 2g with a 6bolt swap this weekend but i used an rpm switch to activate the secondaries set at 4100rpms. Im using the fprs and it i'll see how it drives this weekend hopefully i've been waiting for my car for a long time now so we will see.

 

[Street Surgeon]

40ft/lbs?!? DEFINITELY not worth the effort of hooking it up Good job Ken, I think my next project being a bit more of a daily streetable car might use a cyclone as well

 

[wazzelby]

Using DSM Link's nitrous controls to control the actuator works great as well. I have the runners open at about 4400 RPM and you really can tell when they open up. I agree with alot of people on here that this manifold got a bad rap because some that tried it, had no idea how to use it.
If you are running a larger turbo it definately helps with the lower RPM's torque. I tried both the 1G manifold and the Cyclone and definately like the cyclone better.

 

[kengsx]

Ken, pretty easy to use that software to overlay runs. Gimme a shout if you need a hand

Yes! Beer and dyno plots, that will motivate me. I apologize to all about the time delay here, I have lot's going on and the dsm priority is not what it once was.

 

[keltalon]

Using DSM Link's nitrous controls to control the actuator works great as well. I have the runners open at about 4400 RPM and you really can tell when they open up. I agree with alot of people on here that this manifold got a bad rap because some that tried it, had no idea how to use it.
If you are running a larger turbo it definately helps with the lower RPM's torque. I tried both the 1G manifold and the Cyclone and definately like the cyclone better.

thanks for the info!

 

[MILITISINVICTUS]

We have a few Tech How-To's here for proper Cyclone use. Kengsx, since you're fresh from your success, do you have any comments on which of the articles seem better than the next, and on any omissions in the write-ups you may have noticed, in comparison to your experience?

 

[wazzelby]

That's a good idea, make a good "how to" for the cyclone for different setups. I think the biggest problem with the cyclone is it's implimentation. If we have a few different setups and how they each work, maybe more people could benefit from them.
I haven't met anyone yet who decided to switch back after getting the runners calibrated correctly.

 

[Caithness]

From my understanding the optimal crossover is entirely RPM dependent, not boost dependent. The boost activation and rpm activation can work out pretty much the same as people who set it up on boost activation usually set it to a boost amount that roughly coincides with the optimal rpm range.

MR2 Turbos came with similar manifolds, and here's what one of their most popular basic upgrade path pages has to say about it:

"The intake manifold and TVIS were designed to provide good low end torque and high top end flow using a dual runner per port setup with a set of butterfly valves kept closed at low RPMs to increase air velocity into the port and open at higher RPMs to increase flow capacity. The proper TVIS opening point lowers as VE improves (better exhaust, turbo, valves or cams). The ECU keeps a fixed opening point around 4200RPMs which is too high for modified engines. Consequently, there will be a torque dip from around 3800 RPMs to 4200 RPMs. The ECU also uses the TVIS to reduce engine VE if it has detected knock in the recent past. This can cause variations in performance for no apparent reason. The TVIS be kept functional as long as you continue to use the stock intake manifold but you should control the TVIS with an MSD RPM switch. You will need to purchase an MSD 8950 along with an appropriate RPM module, which is going to be included in wither the MSD 8743 (for even 100 RPMs) or MSD 87431 (for odd 100 RPMs) opening points. Alternatively, you can make your own fully adjustable RPM module. Most modified 3S-GTEs will need to open the TVIS between 3600 and 3900 RPMs. The only way to know for sure is to do a dyno pull to 4500RPMs with the TVIS open and another one with the TVIS closed keeping everything else the same. Then, the point at which the two torque curves cross is your best opening point."

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm
http://www.corral.net/tech/powerplant/arm/

So basically according to that we should be controlling these with a simple rpm switch- whether using the ECU and purge output, or a simple msd rpm switch. To get best results, dyno with the secondaries closed, then dyno with them open and set the activation point where the torque curves cross.

I'm actually fairly interested in trying one of these out after I upgrade my turbo. I think the 2g small port head is a better solution (as Toyota also thought- later MR2s came with smaller ports and no TVIS) but on our large ports the cyclone manifold can help out with some mid-range torque.

 

[keltalon]

From my understanding the optimal crossover is entirely RPM dependent, not boost dependent. The boost activation and rpm activation can work out pretty much the same as people who set it up on boost activation usually set it to a boost amount that roughly coincides with the optimal rpm range.

MR2 Turbos came with similar manifolds, and here's what one of their most popular basic upgrade path pages has to say about it:

"The intake manifold and TVIS were designed to provide good low end torque and high top end flow using a dual runner per port setup with a set of butterfly valves kept closed at low RPMs to increase air velocity into the port and open at higher RPMs to increase flow capacity. The proper TVIS opening point lowers as VE improves (better exhaust, turbo, valves or cams). The ECU keeps a fixed opening point around 4200RPMs which is too high for modified engines. Consequently, there will be a torque dip from around 3800 RPMs to 4200 RPMs. The ECU also uses the TVIS to reduce engine VE if it has detected knock in the recent past. This can cause variations in performance for no apparent reason. The TVIS be kept functional as long as you continue to use the stock intake manifold but you should control the TVIS with an MSD RPM switch. You will need to purchase an MSD 8950 along with an appropriate RPM module, which is going to be included in wither the MSD 8743 (for even 100 RPMs) or MSD 87431 (for odd 100 RPMs) opening points. Alternatively, you can make your own fully adjustable RPM module. Most modified 3S-GTEs will need to open the TVIS between 3600 and 3900 RPMs. The only way to know for sure is to do a dyno pull to 4500RPMs with the TVIS open and another one with the TVIS closed keeping everything else the same. Then, the point at which the two torque curves cross is your best opening point."

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm
http://www.corral.net/tech/powerplant/arm/

So basically according to that we should be controlling these with a simple rpm switch- whether using the ECU and purge output, or a simple msd rpm switch. To get best results, dyno with the secondaries closed, then dyno with them open and set the activation point where the torque curves cross.

I'm actually fairly interested in trying one of these out after I upgrade my turbo. I think the 2g small port head is a better solution (as Toyota also thought- later MR2s came with smaller ports and no TVIS) but on our large ports the cyclone manifold can help out with some mid-range torque.

about the most useful information to date on the variable length runners AKA"cyclone"!

 

[blackGSX2g]

When I had my cyclone hooked up, I had the runners open based on RPM and throttle position. I used the nitrous activation feature on DSMLink using the FPR solenoid. I had it open up all runners at 3400 RPM at 40% throttle or more, then bumped it up to 60% throttle or more. It worked perfectly with my set-up and I loved the low end power characteristics. I may actually drop my Magnus and put the cyclone back on after a few passes through the 1/4 next season. Making the jump from the properly hooked up cyclone to the Magnus absolute killed the power I was used to in the low end.

 

[keltalon]

When I had my cyclone hooked up, I had the runners open based on RPM and throttle position. I used the nitrous activation feature on DSMLink using the FPR solenoid. I had it open up all runners at 3400 RPM at 40% throttle or more, then bumped it up to 60% throttle or more. It worked perfectly with my set-up and I loved the low end power characteristics. I may actually drop my Magnus and put the cyclone back on after a few passes through the 1/4 next season. Making the jump from the properly hooked up cyclone to the Magnus absolute killed the power I was used to in the low end.

did you ever dyno the car with the cyclone intake

 

[blackGSX2g]

Unfortunately not. I'm going to AMS over my spring break for some pulls but I'll probably be using the Magnus for that. I can feel the high end power gain with the Magnus, but I still haven't decided if it was worth the hit in the low end. I it depends on what your personal goals with the car are.

 

[gixrman]

Anyone have a thoughts on extrude honing the cyclone manifold for better topend flow?

 

[kengsx]

The only way to know for sure is to do a dyno pull to 4500RPMs with the TVIS open and another one with the TVIS closed keeping everything else the same. Then, the point at which the two torque curves cross is your best opening point.

I wanted to do this when I was tuning, but the last pull with the cyclone kept open was my only choice given the timing we had and the patience of the place I was at. This gave me the single data point of torque improvement at my particular setting. There's bigger fish to fry with my AEM EMS driveability before I have the luxury of messing with the cyclone, but I'd like to go to a local place and get several runs open and closed. I also think that dynoing at 100% throttle is not the only way to measure the performance gains of the cyclone, since a large percentage of the time driveability is 20-80% throttle (and dynamic as opposed to static). The car's response to throttle is very important and not everything can be measured on a dyno. Give me another year at the rate I'm going.

Ken

 

[keltalon]

Anyone have a thoughts on extrude honing the cyclone manifold for better topend flow?

i called and got a price and extrude hone wanted something like 600.00 so i decided to port the daggone thing myself! along with my head

 

[keltalon]

here is another shot of the head! i also ported the short runners of the cyclone but have yet to take picture of it

 

[wazzelby]

Nice port work. Looks like you really opened it up!!! You'll have to let us know how it runs.

 

[keltalon]

Nice port work. Looks like you really opened it up!!! You'll have to let us know how it runs.

i should have it running in a couple months. i will definitely post the results for the benefit of everyone who wants to know the difference between the 1g and cyclone

 

[keltalon]

well i got the engine in the car and its running very smooth i played around with the cyclone intake and after about 45min i got it working. i movethe stock boost solenoid in where the fuel pressure solenoid was. had to clip the wires to make it work. i first set the dsmlink to open the butterflies @2000rpm had my friend to press the throttle while i looked at the actuator to see if it worked when it hit 2000rpm and it did, so i reprogrammed dsmlink to 4000 rpm. the engine is new so i can't really get on it to see if it makes a different. when i break the engine in i will be going to the dyno to get a comparison between the cyclone and the stock intake manifold!! then i can finally put a rest to whether it is worth it or not i will dyno the car at the end of january my set up is the same except for the cyclone intake stay tuned!!

 

[keltalon]

Nice port work. Looks like you really opened it up!!! You'll have to let us know how it runs.

okay fellas i got the car running and the cyclone working! all i have to say is that i am very very very pleased with it! i drove it for about three days to put some miles on it, then i changed the oil. next i got on it a few times, around 5500rpm max, and it is insane i have the butterflies opening up @ 3900rpm 0% throttle using dsmlink! know what i have been waiting for, the dyno comparison i have an appointment to dyno the car on january 13th, i can tell you right now the car pulls very hard i am looking to top my previous dyno!

 

[KGB Pilot125]

keltalon, not trying to be adick but make sure you get a zip tie or s a little clamp on you FPR, you dont want that little hose to ruin your new year!

Back on topic I cant wait to see the results of the dyno, I have a cyclone intake waiting for when I get the new motor built and put in. I enjoy rally cross and track days quite a bit and love torque.