correction really high on low trim with 550's?

[jim90TSi]

OK guys i finally got the hint on working the safc with the logger. I'm in a bit of a stump though. I thought i had my car tuned in on low fuel trim at around 12% correction across the boards......this was giving me pretty good percentage (mid-high 90's). So i go back out and star messing with the car, drive it to get a log on it to see what happens. Next thin i know my low fuel trim is at 118.7%. I'm like wtf, so I'm messing around and i took the correction up to 23% and it finally settled down around 100%. I have 550's in my 1g running 18 psi, any idea why i have to use to much correction, that varies, to get a smooth fuel trim. I read a good starting correction for injectors my size, is -10%. Why am i way up in the (+) range toward 20% correction? What would cause this?

would also like to add. im not getting a cel light but i disconnected my battery earlier to reset my fuel trims and im getting a code 12 ( MAF)

 

[jim90TSi]

They ohmed out at 12.8 ohms

 

[jim90TSi]

Very attentive Steve! You are right, there should be a plastic cap over the bottom portion. The "bushings" I was referring to are plastic or rubber, and are seats for where the injector meets the rail, you should have a fresh set of those, and new o-rings before you reinstall, along with what Steve said.

Is there a kit i can buy that has all of those seals? With my conquest i ordered a kit that had all of those seals.

 

[steve]

The bushing that fit in the head are called injector insulators, the ones still on those injectors that weith described are called injector sheets by Mitsubishi, and the o-rings are on the top to seal the injector in the fuel rail.
If the insulators were shot before that could be part of the problem.

Since you have measured the injectors and verified that they are high impedance, please check and let us know if you still have a injector resistor pack on the firewall.

You might just want to clean these up and sell them to some honda owner and get some newer ones.

The kit you used before may be exactly the same. These parts are common across many cars.

Steve

 

[jim90TSi]

The insulators are still good, i found a kit that replaces the o rings and the sheets

$14, from advance auto. Im going to try and find some 660cc injectors, ans sell these

 

[weith1111]

Steve's good at this stuff.

I'd ditch these and get some new 550's as well, too much rides on these guys, I wouldn't want to F around.

To answer your ? about where to get them, the dealer can get them for a reasonable price, and some of the vendors (machv, sbr too I think) have them as well. I ordered some years ago from MachV:

http://store.yahoo.com/machv/fuelincomork.html

 

[jim90TSi]

Well I ordered my new seals, should be here tommorow. I am going to be looking for some new 550cc injectors, maybe even 660's. I am also going to put in a new pump, I need a 190 anyway, and replace the fuel filter.

 

[steve]

I am going to be looking for some new 550cc injectors, maybe even 660's.

If you stay in the 550 range, pop over to the evom forum and look for somebody upgrading their EVO VIII. The ND 560cc injectors out of the EVO VIII are pretty nice parts and you can usually find them for < $200. They are better than anything else in that price range.

Steve

 

[jim90TSi]

So EVO VIII 560's will fit right in? Im thinking that is what I will do then.

I reinstalld everything and powered the fuel pump, even with the crappy seals nothing leaks.....could they be leaking internally, and me not see it on the outside.

How do lucas and rc engineering rate with quality? I am looking at some denso's but will most likely go with evo's

 

[jim90TSi]

Also, im lookign into mach injectors are they any good?

 

[steve]

So EVO VIII 560's will fit right in?

How do lucas and rc engineering rate with quality?
Also, im lookign into mach injectors are they any good?

The EVO VIII are direct replacements but obviously larger and not so obvious faster than the stock 450cc in deadtime.
The lucas RC injectors used to be considered good but the ND injectors are better.
Never heard of Mach.

Steve

 

[jim90TSi]

Well, evo injectors it is........found a seton evom,$175

thanks for the referal.

So, what did the injector missing the cap affect? Will it leak internally?

 

[BudmannG]

You know I'm having the same problem. I am running 550's, 2g mafs, walbro 255, and fuel pump rewire kit. I had a AFPR and it wouldn't hold the fuel pressure like it was supposed to so I put the stock FPR back on. Now I have my SAFC-II set at 10% to 12% to the positive just for an idle. And my FTL is resting about 106% on my logger.
When we checked Karmen on the mafs it only showed like 3 Hz, is this right? What is the 2G mafs supposed to be running on Karmen?

 

[steve]

When we checked Karmen on the mafs it only showed like 3 Hz, is this right?

Thats what a SAFC reads when its getting nothing from the MAF.

Try checking for codes and logging the airflow in the driveway. It will be easy to tell if your getting a signal and if it increasing in relation to the RPM.

Steve

 

[BudmannG]

I get a CEL every once in awhile for injector circuit code 41. Don't know why that is either. It will pop up and then go away. I have checked all the injector connections and they are good.

 

[weith1111]

*try not to hijack and stay on topic*

Jim do you have any lifter tick? Now that I put in new lifters and the tick is gone, my timing is a lot better, and my trims are slowly moving down. I'm from 137 to 119 in an hour or so of driving.

I'm not 100% sure how the ECU responds to low timing to know if this makes sense, but wouldn't fuel be added if timing was being pulled? I think so....seeing knock = less timing and more fuel, to be safe.

Have you logged your car just cruising around to see if you are getting any part throttle knock?

 

[BudmannG]

*try not to hijack and stay on topic*

I was not trying to Hijack the thread. Just trying to get the same help. I will start my own thread and then we can have 2 or 3 of the same thread going.
Anyways, Thanks for the help Steve.

 

[weith1111]

I was not trying to Hijack the thread. Just trying to get the same help. I will start my own thread and then we can have 2 or 3 of the same thread going.
Anyways, Thanks for the help Steve.

I apologize, it seemed more like you are saying "my airflow readings are dead and I have a check engine light."

If you aren't getting any airflow readings revving in the driveway, I'd check all the wiring.

As far as that CE light, does it specify which injector?

 

[BudmannG]

No, it doesn't specify, just says injector circuit under explanations.
When I tuned at the track last weekend I had to richen it up a lot, up to 40% on the FTH. And if I am getting no signal how the hell is this thing running, and I shouldn't have to richen it up on all low/high settings. The guy that helped me tune at the track was dumbfounded also, about why we had to add so much fuel to it all just to get it right.

 

[weith1111]

Do you have a log to post?

 

[BudmannG]

I will get one and post it ASAP.

 

[weith1111]

Make sure you have airflow on there (and knock, timing, rpm, and FT's if you'd like)

 

[jim90TSi]

*try not to hijack and stay on topic*

Jim do you have any lifter tick? Now that I put in new lifters and the tick is gone, my timing is a lot better, and my trims are slowly moving down. I'm from 137 to 119 in an hour or so of driving.

I'm not 100% sure how the ECU responds to low timing to know if this makes sense, but wouldn't fuel be added if timing was being pulled? I think so....seeing knock = less timing and more fuel, to be safe.

Have you logged your car just cruising around to see if you are getting any part throttle knock?

I dont have any lifter tick that i have noticed, the car sounds pretty good aside from the powersteering whine.

I have logged the car just cruising around and the most knock i have seen is around 2-3 counts. I saw 10 once under full boost, but havent seen it again since. Timing is real good on it, advances smoothly there.

 

[weith1111]

^^^ ruins that idea. I'm betting on your fuel flow = weak. Once you get new fully functioning injectors, a new filter, new pump, things should be reevaluated.

 

[jim90TSi]

^^^ ruins that idea. I'm betting on your fuel flow = weak. Once you get new fully functioning injectors, a new filter, new pump, things should be reevaluated.

Thats what i was thinking, i bought a set of evo injectors and im buying a 190 pump today

 

[weith1111]

I'd recommend getting at least a FP gauge to make sure your pressure is up to snuff after all the new parts. Then if something is funky you can do an AFPR.