Coolant lines for B16G, are they needed?

[Eagle 5]

I am wondering if the coolant lines for a Big 16G are needed. I know that some places sell big16g's with a dry center section that do not have the holes for coolant lines. Just wondering if I can run my big16g without the coolant lines connected and not have any problems. Other than maybe watching oil temps more closely, would this be a bad idea to do?

I just figure there is not much of a difference between a b16g with or without a dry center section.

Oh, and only reason being, less lines to run, easier to get to things, can run the nt water pipe, etc.

 

[autronicDSM]

You need water lines. If it doesn't use them it must be chinese knock off.

 

[DECODER22]

he has coolant hook ups he asking if he can cap them and just run it dry i think ive done it before but i dun think youll get much life out of it i kno FP sells a dry center for the 16g's

 

[Eagle 5]

he has coolant hook ups he asking if he can cap them and just run it dry i think ive done it before but i dun think youll get much life out of it i kno FP sells a dry center for the 16g's

ya, thats who I was trying to think of. I saw FP sells the dry section so thats why I was wondering if I can just cap mine and run it dry as well. I have an external oil cooler so keeping my oil temps in check is not a problem. Just didnt know if anyone has done this or knows whether its really that bad to do. Not like the turbo is going to be on the car for years. More like months, probably be replaced this winter.

 

[DiamondStarM]

I was thinking about the same thing, Ill be setting up a 14b Miata and getting a oil feed and drilling the pan for the return is no problem, but I wasnt exactly sure about the coolant lines or if I needed them. Ive read that as long as its properly turbo timed before being shut off it wont be a problem, but I have no solid proof of this.

 

[oldman]

Run the turbo the way it was designed to do, in this case "wet". If the FP center was re-designed as a dry center then it's perfectly fine to run it dry but 1g guys should re-locate the oil feed line to the filter housing. What you don't want to do is to run "dry" on a "wet" center by blocking off the coolant passages.

 

[autronicDSM]

he has coolant hook ups he asking if he can cap them and just run it dry i think ive done it before but i dun think youll get much life out of it i kno FP sells a dry center for the 16g's

Wow, I guess I can't read today.

 

[WRX19]

20G's don't even need to be water cooled

 

[jo1]

i run the evo16g without the water line for a year boosting around 1.5bar without any problem..... just let the hole open without the cap. maybe i'm bless....

 

[WRX19]

Whoever gave me the negative reputation points gave the dumbest reason for it....I never said anything about trying to run turbos that are SUPPOSED to have coolant lines with none.

I simply said that 20G's can be run without them...in fact there ARE 20G's that don't have water lines. So thanks for the negative points on that one. Big thumbs up...

If you HAVE a water line on your turbo, by all means try to keep it. It is always better (especially with a DSM) to keep things safe. That's why having a strong radiator fan, having an external oil cooler, tuning to knock, are all things that should be done.

 

[Eagle 5]

Whoever gave me the negative reputation points gave the dumbest reason for it....I never said anything about trying to run turbos that are SUPPOSED to have coolant lines with none.

I simply said that 20G's can be run without them...in fact there ARE 20G's that don't have water lines. So thanks for the negative points on that one. Big thumbs up...

If you HAVE a water line on your turbo, by all means try to keep it. It is always better (especially with a DSM) to keep things safe. That's why having a strong radiator fan, having an external oil cooler, tuning to knock, are all things that should be done.

i have a rather large radiator fan, big external oil cooler up front, and always tune to knock. Just figured running without the water lines would be alright. Wasnt going to cap the holes, just leave them open. Turbo timing is never a problem and is always done.

 

[WRX19]

Stick with the water lines!

 

[suicidal2af]

A local ran his s16g sans water lines, and it died in a few thousand miles.

He replaced it with a 14b in good condition, left water lines off, died in a few thousand miles

Repeated above, same results.

Bought my 14b, installed it with water lines, and is running strong over a year and a half later.

 

[aero_sallee]

A local ran his s16g sans water lines, and it died in a few thousand miles.

He replaced it with a 14b in good condition, left water lines off, died in a few thousand miles

Repeated above, same results.

Bought my 14b, installed it with water lines, and is running strong over a year and a half later.

I ran a Big16g on a 2.4L for about 15,000 with no water lines. Didn't have the fitting for the block, shaft play never changed, showed no ill effects from it. Upgraded and a friend ran it for several thousand miles, he upgraded and it still worked fine. I know its better with the lines, but I didn't have any problems.

 

[ITSME4G63]

why risk it? Id guess if you run it "dry" youd have to turbotime the shit out the car since you have only 1 way of cooling it.

 

[oldman]

why risk it?

Exactly. It's like the casinos offering free insurance on every hand on blackjack tables and you say "no thanks". Not to mention higher oil temperature = thinner oil. There is nothing to gain from disabling it especially if the coolant lines are already on it.

 

[Mirage1]

If you run it "dry" youd have to turbotime the shit out the car since you have only 1 way of cooling it.

That is exactly right. The main reason the water lines are there is because the average person will not sit in their car for a couple minutes to let the turbo cool down. You should let the car idle to cool down even if you still have the water lines connected. So, what is the difference?

Read the HOT COOL DOWN section
http://www.forcedperformance.net/turbofail.aspx

The turbo is going to heat the oil up regardless if there are water lines running to it. The hot oil runs through the oil cooler and heats up the coolant anyways. If you have an oil/air cooler, you are just ahead of the game instead of heating up the coolant (which is important for reducing knock.)

I think the proper answer would be that you can run any wet turbo without the water lines unless the manufacturer specifically states they are required. Otherwise, they are not needed for the operation of the turbo. Just as a half-ass replacement for a turbo timer.

If you doubt any of this, call any shop that sells turbos. I'm surprised none of the vendors have chimed in already. Just saying "the water lines wouldn't be there if they aren't needed" does not really answer the question from a technical standpoint.

 

[ITSME4G63]

I've contemplated running my 16g just oil cooled before, only upside I see to it is that the pesky U-shaped water line wouldn't be in the way. I believe that mitsu engineers know what they are doing and designed the turbos to be both water and oil cooled for a reason, but I believe it has something to do with longevity, and the cooldown period/slowdown/turbo-time period. Your average driver is not going to sit all this time waiting for the turbo to settle down, especially no "fat/stupid" american driver. I believe that's why most if not all factory turbo euipped cars are both oil/water cooled.

 

[JDNSBR]

Yes, you can run a 16g without the water lines. Like stated before you will have to have cool down time with the turbo, so a turbo timer will be best. The actual gain from it...none that are worthwhile that come to mind. If you worried about that 1lb for at the track, don't eat that double cheeseburger you're holding.

I say be safe and stick with the water cooling for the 16g. It is better to be safe than sorry IMO.

 

[oldman]

If you doubt any of this, call any shop that sells turbos. I'm surprised none of the vendors have chimed in already. Just saying "the water lines wouldn't be there if they aren't needed" does not really answer the question from a technical standpoint.

You might as well ask Unorthodox Racing whether undampered pulleys will cause uneven bearing wear. Who do you trust more anyway, Mitsu engineers who are responsible for 7/70 warrenty or a turbo vendor with a 1year warrenty if honered at all? Just because there are plenty of smokers alive doesn't mean smoking doesn't cause lung cancer, you certainly wouldn't take Philip Morris's opinion on the suject too seriously.

It isn't rocket science for a person with common sense to easily come to thses following conclusions without extensive testing.

1. The cooler the turbo the better.

2. Running coolant lines in a wet center will make a difference in temperature regardless whether you can directly link it to turbo failures. As for your "it's only for cool down" claim, unfortunitely life isn't about taking one run down the drag stirp and cool down, it's about traffic lights, stop and go's.

3. A dry center is desinged differently which allows more oil to flow through the center quicker, a wet center is different.

With all that said, the proper question here should be "why?", what do you have to gain by removing the coolant lines? You're the one going against the wisdom of the original designer and it should be you who provide reasons as to why one should go through the trouble and take the chance of removing the coolant lines, backed up by factual datas obviously. "A turbo vendor told me so" really doesn't answer the question from a technical standpoint.

Hey Jon.

 

[suicidal2af]

You might as well ask Unorthodox Racing whether undampered pulleys will cause uneven bearing wear. Who do you trust more anyway, Mitsu engineers who are responsible for 7/70 warrenty or a turbo vendor with a 1year warrenty if honered at all? Just because there are plenty of smokers alive doesn't mean smoking doesn't cause lung cancer, you certainly wouldn't take Philip Morris's opinion on the suject too seriously.

It isn't rocket science for a person with common sense to easily come to thses following conclusions without extensive testing.

1. The cooler the turbo the better.

2. Running coolant lines in a wet center will make a difference in temperature regardless whether you can directly link it to turbo failures. As for your "it's only for cool down" claim, unfortunitely life isn't about taking one run down the drag stirp and cool down, it's about traffic lights, stop and go's.

3. A dry center is desinged differently which allows more oil to flow through the center quicker, a wet center is different.

With all that said, the proper question here should be "why?", what do you have to gain by removing the coolant lines? You're the one going against the wisdom of the original designer and it should be you who provide reasons as to why one should go through the trouble and take the chance of removing the coolant lines, backed up by factual datas obviously. "A turbo vendor told me so" really doesn't answer the question from a technical standpoint.

Hey Jon.

I would give you rep points for this if you didn't already have a sideways 8.

To answer your "why?", there are 2 things:

1) People being lazy.
2) People thinking that they're smarter than the mitsu or honeywell engineers

 

[DiamondStarM]

I would give you rep points for this if you didn't already have a sideways 8.

To answer your "why?", there are 2 things:

1) People being lazy.
2) People thinking that they're smarter than the mitsu or honeywell engineers

Well not always, I chimed in as being curious since Im am turboing a Miata with a 14b and the Miata has no place for coolant a feed and return as it stands now. Not a hard problem to fix, just thought I would ask since it was being brough up. Now that its been answered maybe we should leave the topic alone before people get bent out of shape.

 

[oldman]

That's right, this is simply a technical discussion, no need for personal attacks, nor should anyone get bent out of shape.

 

[suicidal2af]

Well not always, I chimed in as being curious since Im am turboing a Miata with a 14b and the Miata has no place for coolant a feed and return as it stands now. Not a hard problem to fix, just thought I would ask since it was being brough up. Now that its been answered maybe we should leave the topic alone before people get bent out of shape.

So, essentially, you are trying to get around having to do the extra work to run coolant lines, right?

Falls underneath option 1

Wasn't trying to sound insulting or flame anyone, those are just the only two reasons for not running coolant lines to a wet center turbo. Every reason I've ever read or heard someone use would fall under one of them.

Everybody cuts corners now and then, but this is one area where I'd rather do the extra work.

 

[DiamondStarM]

Falls underneath option 1

Actually youre wrong. Lazyness has noting to do with it... If I were lazy I wouldnt even start such a project or have bought a DSM for that matter. Its just like everyone who asks if they can use ebay parts or whats the max boost I can run. The are just looking for some guidelines to see if what they have planned out in their heads is actually practical. If someone tells you you can get from point a to point b by taking a shorter route wouldnt you be interested in shaving a few miles off your trip? So you ask around and find out that the shortcut is actually a dirt road with potholes and its just not as practical even if it is a few miles shorter and faster. Being curious didnt make you lazy because sometimes the shortcuts work out to your benefit which would fall under working smarter, not harder, which wasnt listed as one of your options.