Contructive Info On Aluminum Rods?

[gixrman]

Hmm.. aluminum rods for a BC 2.6 stroker might be interesting.

 

[Freerevving]

Right. I'm not negating the benefit of a longer rod. But just that if you really want more stroke, make the most of it .

yup Your example also explains why a lighter (and stronger) crank is optimal in a stroker.

Hmm.. aluminum rods for a BC 2.6 stroker might be interesting.

Those rods would have to be ENORMOUS

 

[Blindsey]

yup Your example also explains why a lighter (and stronger) crank is optimal in a stroker.



Those rods would have to be ENORMOUS

So just out of curiosity. Hows about a knife edged crank in combination with my MGP Aluminum rods and Arias stroker pistons?

 

[1992awdlaser]

how about titanium connecting rods?

Crower Cams & Equipment - Mitsubishi - Connecting Rods (read fine print, $477/rod for titanium)

Introducing Pauter Titanium Rods

I agree that with today's available grades of aluminum and forging techniques, that aluminum can be used effectively for connecting rods.

Out of my price range. Even if they were in my price range, I still wouldn't spend the extra money on them over the Grodens.

Good choice on the Mahles, LMK if you get confused on clearance (like everyone, including myself did). It's pretty simple but they don't clearly provide the information. In fact, they provide some misinformation... So did one of the Mahle techs.

but I cut through all of the confusion and I have the bare truth on the clearance, confirmed by everyone I've cross-referenced and the techs at Mahle.

Thanks. I will keep that in mind when I get them.

Holy he!! The tensile force on a 2.0l motor is the same at 8K as a 2.4 at 7.3K; same weight pistons (same wristpin height) and same rods. A stroker can get away with 400rpms more than a 2.4 motor because of only 45grams less weight at the piston because of the taller wristpin height. . . 122grams less weight vs. decent steel rods? Wow! You can rev higher with a stroker than a built 2.0L.

That's one of the reasons I am going with aluminum rods, easier on other parts. They are MUCH easier on the rod bearings also since they will "cushion" the force pushing down.

Also, keep in mind the weight of the Mahle pistons that I will be using at 250 grams verse say Ross pistons at 352 grams.

Rods and pistons combined will equal about 224 grams less PER CYLINDER than if I used a crower/ross setup. 896 grams less weight between the four cylinders.

 

[Freerevving]

... 896 grams less weight between the four cylinders.

damn that's exactly 2 pounds... that's a lot.

what about the crank, what are you using for a crank? taking 112 grams off per cylinder on a forged crank would save you 1 more pound... if the total wieght reduction is 224grams/cylinder on the crank you would have a 4 pound reduction inside. Of course, the reciprocating mass is a lil different, but being lightweight and strong will relieve stress on the rods, and help more of the power to be absorbed outside of the engine.

Hey don't get me wrong, the setup sounds badass! and a Mitsu crank will do just fine... but I thought since you went as far as Grodens that the crank would compliment them perfectly.

wait somehow I got confused and thought you were going stroker... my opinion still stands though

 

[1992awdlaser]

damn that's exactly 2 pounds... that's a lot.

what about the crank, what are you using for a crank? taking 112 grams off per cylinder on a forged crank would save you 1 more pound... if the total wieght reduction is 224grams/cylinder on the crank you would have a 4 pound reduction inside. Of course, the reciprocating mass is a lil different, but being lightweight and strong will relieve stress on the rods, and help more of the power to be absorbed outside of the engine.

If funds permit: FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

From their site, "As if that was not enough, and feeling a little sassy, we can lighten the 6 bolt crank by an incredible 7-8 pounds which results in even quicker revs and increased horsepower by eliminating that extra rotating weight. Now, I know what you're thinking but don't sweat it...our lightening procedure does NOT hinder its reliability nor its function. In other words, GO POUND ON IT! Couple that with an aluminum flywheel and rods, and you're talking about a motor that will rev as quickly as a crotch rocket."

 

[Slippi84]

If funds permit: FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

From their site, "As if that was not enough, and feeling a little sassy, we can lighten the 6 bolt crank by an incredible 7-8 pounds which results in even quicker revs and increased horsepower by eliminating that extra rotating weight. Now, I know what you're thinking but don't sweat it...our lightening procedure does NOT hinder its reliability nor its function. In other words, GO POUND ON IT! Couple that with an aluminum flywheel and rods, and you're talking about a motor that will rev as quickly as a crotch rocket."

Yeah I saw that too but I think I might just go eagle on the crank as the price a durability are proven and give me a little more piece of mind. 7-8 pounds is a lot though. I wonder how much they would charge to do the proceudre to a crank if you sent it in. Imagine a forged crank with that done to it

 

[1992awdlaser]

Yeah I saw that too but I think I might just go eagle on the crank as the price a durability are proven and give me a little more piece of mind. 7-8 pounds is a lot though. I wonder how much they would charge to do the proceudre to a crank if you sent it in. Imagine a forged crank with that done to it

It's $550 if you send your crank to them.

 

[Slippi84]

It's $550 if you send your crank to them.

Def will be doing that

 

[BoredDSM]

I believe the MGP's need to be grounded down on the big end. People who have used them told me that they needed to shave the actual rod down on the MGP's because they were way to big. I think they had to contact mgp about it and actually find out how much they could remove but they told me they were going to redesign it and come out with a different one that required little to no grinding.

 

[1992awdlaser]

I believe the MGP's need to be grounded down on the big end. People who have used them told me that they needed to shave the actual rod down on the MGP's because they were way to big. I think they had to contact mgp about it and actually find out how much they could remove but they told me they were going to redesign it and come out with a different one that required little to no grinding.

You are probably talking about when the rod cap is too big. The mains are the part that should be ground down, not the rod cap.

 

[BoredDSM]

You are probably talking about when the rod cap is too big. The mains are the part that should be ground down, not the rod cap.

There was a topic on another forum and they had to grind down there rod caps. The end was to wide and didn't clear the crank. I'm gonna email the guy for some pics.

 

[Blindsey]

There was a topic on another forum and they had to grind down there rod caps. The end was to wide and didn't clear the crank. I'm gonna email the guy for some pics.

Are you sure he wasn't trying to put it on a 7 bolt crank? The MGP are designed for a 6 bolt crank and 22mm wrist pin........

 

[Freerevving]

well what I was talking about was knife-edging and/or lightening the crank... you won't save 7 pounds doing it (probably 1-3 pounds).

I've read FFWD Connection's theories before, and they don't hold water. First off, extreme lightening of the crank (especially butchering) will always weaken it, no matter what. You're removing its lateral strength. I've seen a few butcher cranks on 4 cyl N/A applications, but I definitely wouldn't trust it on a high-horsepower forced induction engine.

Secondly, their theory on having a rounded leading edge isn't sound. Sure, a round leading edge is important on an aeroplane and a submarine, where they need to turn back and forth through the water/air and to be maneuverable... but those objects don't need to suddenly pierce through a substance like a clever does. And a crank definitely does not need to be maneuverable. If a submarine had a knife-nose, it would have one direction: straight... same direction as a crank. The butcher-clever design is supposed to pierce through the oil, while removing a lot of weight.

Finally, the only broken cranks I have ever seen were forged and heavily lightened. This is a common practice in v-8 racing, but the untouched/lightly modified cranks are far more reliable. There are processes to knife-edge and lighten the crank up by a couple pounds (4 cyl), that actually keep the strength (and arguably add some), but there is no such thing as "our lightening procedure does NOT hinder its reliability".

BTW, I'm really impressed with the machine work I see on FFWD Connection's website. It looks top-notch and I'm sure they do great work. I just think the person that wrote the webpage probably got a little carried away.

--Mac

 

[BoredDSM]

well what I was talking about was knife-edging and/or lightening the crank... you won't save 7 pounds doing it (probably 1-3 pounds).

I've read FFWD Connection's theories before, and they don't hold water. First off, extreme lightening of the crank (especially butchering) will always weaken it, no matter what. You're removing its lateral strength. I've seen a few butcher cranks on 4 cyl N/A applications, but I definitely wouldn't trust it on a high-horsepower forced induction engine.

Secondly, their theory on having a rounded leading edge isn't sound. Sure, a round leading edge is important on an aeroplane and a submarine, where they need to turn back and forth through the water/air and to be maneuverable... but those objects don't need to suddenly pierce through a substance like a clever does. And a crank definitely does not need to be maneuverable. If a submarine had a knife-nose, it would have one direction: straight... same direction as a crank. The butcher-clever design is supposed to pierce through the oil, while removing a lot of weight.

Finally, the only broken cranks I have ever seen were forged and heavily lightened. This is a common practice in v-8 racing, but the untouched/lightly modified cranks are far more reliable. There are processes to knife-edge and lighten the crank up by a couple pounds (4 cyl), that actually keep the strength (and arguably add some), but there is no such thing as "our lightening procedure does NOT hinder its reliability".

BTW, I'm really impressed with the machine work I see on FFWD Connection's website. It looks top-notch and I'm sure they do great work. I just think the person that wrote the webpage probably got a little carried away.

--Mac

Damn you cease to amaze me . Elighten us more on your secrets of aluminum rods!

Yes, I am 100% sure they had to grind down the mgp rods and not the block.

 

[Freerevving]

Elighten us more on your secrets of aluminum rods!

, I don't have any... I really don't have much knowledge about aluminum rods. Personally, I'd stick to steel for the purpose they serve, but I'm consistantly amazed with what aluminum is being used for and it doesn't suprise me that it could be used for DD rods.

 

[jshuman]

I will be starting a new build at the first of the year and I want a lightweight rotating assembly. Right now I plan to use groden rods with the butchered stroker crank. Does anyone see a problem with that combo? I am also considering the wiseco hd 1400 pistons? Any advice is welcome.

 

[1992awdlaser]

I will be starting a new build at the first of the year and I want a lightweight rotating assembly. Right now I plan to use groden rods with the butchered stroker crank. Does anyone see a problem with that combo? I am also considering the wiseco hd 1400 pistons? Any advice is welcome.

When I build my engine I will be using Groden rods, FFWD butcher crank, and Mahle pistons. This will be on a car that will be seeing around 5,000-8,000 miles a year, most being street miles.

I'm not worried one bit.

 

[BoredDSM]

I'm sure you guys are familiar with wyldkardz. He currently uses grodens for well over 10k miles and many 10 second passes. Still no problem. He is going for his tear down and then he will post his results.

 

[jshuman]

When I build my engine I will be using Groden rods, FFWD butcher crank, and Mahle pistons. This will be on a car that will be seeing around 5,000-8,000 miles a year, most being street miles.

I'm not worried one bit.

That's good to know. Will that be a 2.0, 2.3, 2.4? I will be doing about the same amount of street driving but it will be a 2.3l. I am shooting for 700 whp minimum and from whAt I understand the grodens are adequate for that goal.

 

[1992awdlaser]

That's good to know. Will that be a 2.0, 2.3, 2.4? I will be doing about the same amount of street driving but it will be a 2.3l. I am shooting for 700 whp minimum and from whAt I understand the grodens are adequate for that goal.

This will be a 2.0L unless I get more money to spend on it than I plan on getting. In that case it would be a 2.1L. The Grodens won't have any problems with that power level. Jake Montgomery (evil eagle) ran aluminum rods in his car without a problem.

 

[BoredDSM]

That's good to know. Will that be a 2.0, 2.3, 2.4? I will be doing about the same amount of street driving but it will be a 2.3l. I am shooting for 700 whp minimum and from whAt I understand the grodens are adequate for that goal.

I was told that with the strokers you have to grind away parts of the bottom of the cylinder. Something to watch out for.

 

[Slippi84]

This will be a 2.0L unless I get more money to spend on it than I plan on getting. In that case it would be a 2.1L. The Grodens won't have any problems with that power level. Jake Montgomery (evil eagle) ran aluminum rods in his car without a problem.

Actually he broke one and shot it threw the block

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/299957-jake-montgomery-mir.html

 

[1992awdlaser]

Actually he broke one and shot it threw the block

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/299957-jake-montgomery-mir.html

It wasn't because of the rod failing though.

 

[Slippi84]

It wasn't because of the rod failing though.

This is true but it is possible for them to break but then again at that hp level racing is breaking.