Considering DSM Link for a 1G... Input?

[groundPork]

Just as the titales says. Want to know anyone elses input good or bad. It appears to have the essential tools I'll need to tune and log for my street car. It will see occasional track racing. I'll be honest the price and features togather attract me the most. It appears to be somewhat of a constant evolving system, and I wanted to know especially if anyone had info on any drawbacks or weak points of the system. what type of quirks if any does this system come with? Any input is appreciated as always.

Plans for a 9:1 64/63 hybrid with a B16G about 350 hp to the wheels is the goal.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I run it in my 2G and I can tell you that for ease of use, functionality, logging capabilities, and price.....it can't be beat.

Based on feedback from the DSMLink forums the 1G guys feel the same.

Really any questions can be answered here:
http://dsmlink.com/

 

[groundPork]

I run it in my 2G and I can tell you that for ease of use, functionality, logging capabilities, and price.....it can't be beat.

Based on feedback from the DSMLink forums the 1G guys feel the same.

Really any questions can be answered here:
http://dsmlink.com/

ok, question for you as a user. I noticed your using the 3.3 bar gm map sensor. are you running speed density only or are your running the GM MAF as well and switching over at a certain airflow to MAP only? If the later, I am very curious how the tuning would differ from one system of measurement to anotehr if any. I understand the MAF systems generally only work well for a specific range of air flow which most upgraded turbos are capapble of bringing the engine out of as far as volumetric efficiency, I would really like to know your comments of the difference from tuning one to the other. Specific things that stand out in your mind would be very helpful.

Also for your combination if you don't mind, could you tell me how much timing you're running on pump (91 or 93 or whatever) at your average best peak boost level, and at what AFR at WOT. Gas mileage would be another thing I would be curious about as you have what apears to be a daily commuter that is heavily modified (at least outside the realm of typical DSM'rs... boost boost boost

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I still run the OEM, unhacked 2G MAS. The GM 3.3BAR MAP sensor is strictly for tuning purposes. I have a WB O2 wired in using the rear O2 location in the ECU, and the MAP sensor wired in at the MDP sensor location in the ECU. The 0-5v signal allows me to log inside DSMLink as "hard number" confirmation while tuning. It's really a nice combination that all but eliminates trips to the Dyno.

During the summer here (Houston, Texas) it gets extremely hot and I just "zero" out the timing to stock levels and run 16PSI. I plan on water injection to "up that", but it won't happen this year. During the winter I run 20PSI and 18 degrees. All year long off 93 with a target of 11:1. It could probably do more on pump, but I'm not a pusher. It's never been to a Dyno to acquire any numbers, but it's fun to drive.

The car is actually a nice weather toy. My daily is a 96 Galant, nothing special, just a simple "A-to-B" car. My wife has a KIA Sportage. I'm personally not a truck guy, but she likes it and that's what counts. So if the Eclipse see 6K miles a year, I've done some heavy driving.

 

[Ludachris]

There really is no "bad" when it comes to DSMlink. If you need more control (which 99% of people here don't) you can go AEM but you really need to have a LOT of experience tuning cars before you step up to AEM. DSMlink has everything you'll need unless maybe you're planning on competing in road racing really. Only then will AEM have an advantage in my opinion.

You'll find plenty of people here in our forums who will help you out with DSMlink and will answer your questions. And DSMlink has their own support forums if you can't get something answered here. Either way you should have an easy time getting up to speed.

 

[Tom N]

Dsmlink is a wonderfull tuning tool with excelent customer service.
Yes a AEM can do things that dsmlink cant but most out there will be more comfortable and happier with dsmlink. I use both and love them both but.
DSMlink has a 30 page users guide.
AEM has a 217 page users guide.

 

[groundPork]

This is all very reassuring. Thanks a heap guys. You basically confirmed what I was feeling from the DSMLINK site. Not the gigantic bag of limitless tricks, half of which i might never use, but by all means probably more than I might ever need. Eventually I think my path will lead me to the AEM and likely MOTEC but I do have to cut my teeth somewhere in the tuning realm. I might just spend a lot more time after with carbs to get a better feel for them as well. I know I'm taking the easy route to 350 whp by upping displacement and compression on top of boost. My goal is to create as broad of a torque curve as possible. I know it sound odd to some, but my theory is that if you can produce more low to mid torque, you can better set the car up to hook properly. Reasoning behind that being... not having to launch the car at 7 grand every time. not having to use the anti-lag to build 20 some odd psi at the line, damaging very expensive turbos. basically being able to launch a four cylinder AWD car as easily as any small block equipped RWD car on street tires, and make descent ET's at descent MPH. The kicker is that I won't need to push the economical B16G to its thermal limits in order to mak ethe minimal HP needed to be competitive. The motor would be tractible and powerful.

So I think I'm sold on DSm link. One last thing... user interface... What are your guy's opinions on the software, and ease of use age and understanding. I've read all the commenets on the link site, but take it all with a grain of salt. I'm seriously interested in real opinions. I've often heard that the AEM system, while enormously versitile, can be unbelievably complex. If you have not spent the time to get to know it intemately then you end up getting lost, especially when building maps.

I wanna know if DSM link has similar undisclosed idiosincracies. Again... I am not very experienced with tuning. I am learning and am looking for a system that I can start with and grow into....

 

[Ludachris]

Actually that's part of what makes DSMlink so good is its simple user interface. I've seen the AEM interface, and though I'm sure it's not bad when you get used to it, it doesn't seem nearly as simple to use as DSMlink. Of course that probably goes along with the fact that DSMlink is less complex overall. AEM has a lot of menu items containing things you'll likely never use and the things you do use are lost in all those menus.

 

[groundPork]

Actually that's part of what makes DSMlink so good is its simple user interface. I've seen the AEM interface, and though I'm sure it's not bad when you get used to it, it doesn't seem nearly as simple to use as DSMlink. Of course that probably goes along with the fact that DSMlink is less complex overall. AEM has a lot of menu items containing things you'll likely never use and the things you do use are lost in all those menus.

Things I would likely never use... such as?...

 

[FORMONTOYA]

DSMLink is very easy to use IMO. Once set up, you will more than likely hit only 3 different screens.....timing, fuel, and the main logging screen.

The interface is super simple. I had never tuned an EFI system before (V8/carb/dist guy) and as stated, after reading a small manual (30ish pages sounds about right), I was pulling out of the garage to confirm injector "dial-in" settings.....about an hour later I was doing 3rd gear pulls working on a tune. Very simple to use.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I might as well ramble on a bit. I've been a DSMlink user since it came out. That was so long ago now I can't even remember when it was. 3-4 years ago I guess. I ran it on my 2g, the 1g version got a few perks that the 2g version won't see until V3 comes out. They don't make it for the EVO, but I like DSMlink so much that I wired in a 95 ECU into the EVO harness so I could continue to use it. Thanks to two local NEDSMers that pioneered this mod of course. I've since switch to AEM because of some quirkiness related not to DSMlink, but to running a 2g ECU in an EVO. Just not meant to go together. The car went 11.52 at 122, so it certainly worked, but cold idle and some other situations were aggrevating. At any rate...

DSMlink: Extremely easy to use. You still have to know how to tune, but assuming you do, the GUI is very simple and the menus are well thought out. The client is always being tweaked for more functionality and convenience, seems like a new one comes out (that you can download from the forums) every 2 months or so. Once you learn your way around you can zip through the screens like you were born knowing how. I like the fact that the main application and the logger are one and the same. AEM uses two seperate programs, AEMpro and AEMlog. Not as streamlined as DSMlink by any means. DSMlink gives you control over all of the "important" things. There really isn't too much more I would want from a tuning system, even after experiencing the impressive and overwhelming adjustability of the AEM. It's still based on the stock ECU so it still runs like a stock car. I was getting up to 30 mpg in a mid 11 second car, which is nice. I also passed emissions every time. The nitrous controls worked flawlessly (and saved my motor twice). Rev limiters and NLTS just work, where AEM requries a lot of assing around with seemingly arbitrary settings.

The AEM is much more involved. I consider myself to be reasonably educated about tuning and EFI theory, but the AEM can be a challenge. And that's another big reason I wanted to try it anyway, I need a challenge. There are so many things to adjust and monitor it's out of control. Not all of them are really necessary of course. But after two days I had the car pretty driveable and making good power, so I was pleased with that. Now a few weeks into I feel I know my way around it pretty well, and the driveability is as good as the EVO on the stock ECU, or the DSM on the DSMlink ECU.

After using the AEM and going through some frustrating moments with it, it became readily apparent that DSMlink does an incredible job at what it was designed to do. It really does not get any better. Tom and Dave really hit the nail on the head with this product, and it shows in their sales and in the reponse they get from owners in the DSMlink forums. There are very very few complaints.

I could go on for hours, but I've got a meeting to get to. Moral of the story, do not have any reservations about going with DSMlink, it is a solid investment for just about any setup people will run and money very well spent.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

I've been using link since about last xmas. I love it. It's very straight forward and easy to use for the most part. I definately enjoy having everything on the same log appear together. It really makes it easy to see the relationship between things. I don't think you should hesitate. Your making the right choice.

 

[groundPork]

I might as well ramble on a bit. I've been a DSMlink user since it came out. That was so long ago now I can't even remember when it was. 3-4 years ago I guess. I ran it on my 2g, the 1g version got a few perks that the 2g version won't see until V3 comes out. They don't make it for the EVO, but I like DSMlink so much that I wired in a 95 ECU into the EVO harness so I could continue to use it. Thanks to two local NEDSMers that pioneered this mod of course. I've since switch to AEM because of some quirkiness related not to DSMlink, but to running a 2g ECU in an EVO. Just not meant to go together. The car went 11.52 at 122, so it certainly worked, but cold idle and some other situations were aggrevating. At any rate...

DSMlink: Extremely easy to use. You still have to know how to tune, but assuming you do, the GUI is very simple and the menus are well thought out. The client is always being tweaked for more functionality and convenience, seems like a new one comes out (that you can download from the forums) every 2 months or so. Once you learn your way around you can zip through the screens like you were born knowing how. I like the fact that the main application and the logger are one and the same. AEM uses two seperate programs, AEMpro and AEMlog. Not as streamlined as DSMlink by any means. DSMlink gives you control over all of the "important" things. There really isn't too much more I would want from a tuning system, even after experiencing the impressive and overwhelming adjustability of the AEM. It's still based on the stock ECU so it still runs like a stock car. I was getting up to 30 mpg in a mid 11 second car, which is nice. I also passed emissions every time. The nitrous controls worked flawlessly (and saved my motor twice). Rev limiters and NLTS just work, where AEM requries a lot of assing around with seemingly arbitrary settings.

The AEM is much more involved. I consider myself to be reasonably educated about tuning and EFI theory, but the AEM can be a challenge. And that's another big reason I wanted to try it anyway, I need a challenge. There are so many things to adjust and monitor it's out of control. Not all of them are really necessary of course. But after two days I had the car pretty driveable and making good power, so I was pleased with that. Now a few weeks into I feel I know my way around it pretty well, and the driveability is as good as the EVO on the stock ECU, or the DSM on the DSMlink ECU.

After using the AEM and going through some frustrating moments with it, it became readily apparent that DSMlink does an incredible job at what it was designed to do. It really does not get any better. Tom and Dave really hit the nail on the head with this product, and it shows in their sales and in the reponse they get from owners in the DSMlink forums. There are very very few complaints.

I could go on for hours, but I've got a meeting to get to. Moral of the story, do not have any reservations about going with DSMlink, it is a solid investment for just about any setup people will run and money very well spent.

Interesting stuff. Having trouble registering on the DSMLink forum, says administrator shut down registration.

I don't know if anyone as asked this or not, but Does DSM link allow the user to specify load or AFR for closed loop operation? Or does that not really matter?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I don't know if anyone as asked this or not, but Does DSM link allow the user to specify load or AFR for closed loop operation? Or does that not really matter?

No, it does not.

No, it does not matter as the car in closed loop runs off the factory ECU. You will compensate for larger injectors using the "global" and "dead time" settings under the fuel management tab and the car will idle and cruise (closed loop) as it did from the factory.

All you're really tuning is what needs to be tuned.....WOT.

 

[groundPork]

No, it does not.

No, it does not matter as the car in closed loop runs off the factory ECU. You will compensate for larger injectors using the "global" and "dead time" settings under the fuel management tab and the car will idle and cruise (closed loop) as it did from the factory.

All you're really tuning is what needs to be tuned.....WOT.

Hey thanks a bunch for the input man. Time to go tunin!

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Interesting stuff. Having trouble registering on the DSMLink forum, says administrator shut down registration.

Have you purchased link yet? Only owners of the software are allowed to join up on the forums. They will give you the name you request and password after you order.

 

[groundPork]

Interesting stuff. Having trouble registering on the DSMLink forum, says administrator shut down registration.

Have you purchased link yet? Only owners of the software are allowed to join up on the forums. They will give you the name you request and password after you order.

ahaahhh! now I see. well, just more reason to get it ASAp.

Guys, thanks for all the impute on this, I'll have lot's more questions I'm sure, but in the mean time, I think I know now what I want in the way of an EMS.

Oh, just thought of a question actually... Are our engines under higher than stock boost capabilities generally still running at AFRs close enough to stoic during part throttle, and even under ligth throttle cruise to allow th e narrow band 02 to provide accurate readings to the ECU? What about on uphill grades? It would seems to me if one were to build a high CR larger displacement motor for an eclipse with a near stock size 16G or smaller, it would spool sooon enough to require quite a bit more fuel in the lower rpm range, and seemingly lower load range of the engine. It would also seem plausable that in a steep uphill situation nearest the ocean and possibly at or below sea level where air desity should be quite high that load on the engine would be high enough that it could cause the ECU to dump enough fuel to actually throw off the readings of the NB o2 sensor. Basically by trying to avoid or quell light knock it would have thown the AFR far off enough of the range it'd be capapble of reading accurately. Or are we to assume that one would be running WOT in 2nd gear in a steep uphill situation(not lugging it down)WTF ?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

You are thinking about this way too much. It just works, trust us If you want to make global changes to closed loop AFR you can run one of the WBO2 with configurable outputs like the techedge.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Correct.....in closed loop the only change made is to the global and dead time settings to compensate for larger injectors. Otherwise normal closed loop operation reacts the same as if no mods were made at all. The Mitsubishi engineers have already taken into account all these scenarios you're coming up with.

Where actual tuning with DSMLink comes into play is at WOT (open loop) where you need it.

 

[groundPork]

anyone notice any issues with AEM UEGO and DSM Link?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

On the DSMLink forums....no one has had any issues that wasn't due to "operator head space".

 

[groundPork]

On the DSMLink forums....no one has had any issues that wasn't due to "operator head space".

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Truth be told, I didn't read this entire thread. I just finished reading another long one, and didn't feel like hurting my brain

Anywho, DSMLink is hands-down the best thing I've bought for my car. I wasn't ready to drop the coin (and sanity) for AEM EMS, and piggy-backs obviously wouldn't support my setup, so I went this route, and couldn't be happier.

Aside from the car not having ISC/FIAV/anything else for comfort, it drives great and gets 20-22MPG city.