Combination Advice w/ Holset for street

[TurboGeoff]

Baby Steps, need i say more?

From now on , anytime i read a noobish thread, im gunna say baby steps.

Its simple, if you dont start out small and upgade as you need to, you will most likely blow that 7-bolt like a loitering iraqy.

 

[dsm10sec]

 

[sweet97]

The fuel pump of course. A Walbro 255 High pressure rewired should be enough for your goals. Don't know about fuel rails on 2g's. I know many 2g guys switch to 1g TB's and intakes/head which would allow the 1g rail which would be plenty, no need for aftermarket rail. I just got an AFPR from www.fullthrottlespeed.com and I believe they have their backorder problems solved though it sounds like you are not needing things next week anyways. How much does the Holset flow anyways? 50 trim I have is 49lbs/min. and 660'cc inj's are fine. Mark

 

[98spyderboost]

Well I was hoping to go with a true ported cyclone and 1g TB. 1g head, cams and gears, bov, and eventually, probly the day after the holset install drop my 6-bolt in. Which is why I wanted to stay with the thread being about supporting mods. I already have a 6-bolt block. Just havent built it yet. I want to build the car up to that block first for as long as this one can hold out. Lets just say my insurance ROCKS Dont ask.... I dont want to keep switching injector sizes every time I make a change to the car. I want to get the best and leave it there. I guess it's just hopes and dreams but to have a car that was able to litterally go from mild daily driver to 500HP monster with a few clicks would make my life Besides keep in mind the theme behind all the performance mods is simply put, technology and simplicity. Almost an oxymoron huh I think I need to reorganize myself and redraw my plan based more on doing a complete upgrade at once. Instead of over a span of time. Or at least in larger more detailed phases.


So anyways, everyone agree that the stock 1g fuel rail will work?

 

[98spyderboost]

The fuel pump of course. A Walbro 255 High pressure rewired should be enough for your goals. Don't know about fuel rails on 2g's. I know many 2g guys switch to 1g TB's and intakes/head which would allow the 1g rail which would be plenty, no need for aftermarket rail. I just got an AFPR from www.fullthrottlespeed.com and I believe they have their backorder problems solved though it sounds like you are not needing things next week anyways. How much does the Holset flow anyways? 50 trim I have is 49lbs/min. and 660'cc inj's are fine. Mark

As far as I know the HX-35w like mine flows around 60-60lbs/min, and the HX-40 with an external wastgate flows at over 75lbs/min. And can spool well over 35 PSI w/ no problem. Hence the 14psi being unrealistic due to it being out of it's efficiency range.

I understand the logic but I dont know how far out of range it really is. There arent a whole lot of these out on the streets yet comparatively. Another reason I like it

 

[n3gativerr0r]

I have a question..

Why not just build the car around the HX30 make it scary fast and get a Daily Driver?

All this I want a 350whp/230whp car and then later I want a 500whp/230whp FWD car that my wife can drive stuff is gonna cost you a buttload of money. Thats even IF you get it to work.. which frankly I dont even think youll get close. If you have a DSM modded to make all that power and then you "turn" it down to some stupidly low power level its gonna be like driving a Kia Rio unless your in the gas all the time.

My advise is to take the money you are about to piss away on this project and get a decent sized turbo like a 20g, 50trim etc. Put in some suspension work, weight savings, LSD, some good tire and tune tune tune. Putting down mid 300s whp with a light balanced car will be plenty fast. And if it isnt, your a few mods away from supporting a HX30 anyway.

 

[dsm10sec]

I have a question..

Why not just build the car around the HX30 make it scary fast and get a Daily Driver?

All this I want a 350whp/230whp car and then later I want a 500whp/230whp FWD car that my wife can drive stuff is gonna cost you a buttload of money. Thats even IF you get it to work.. which frankly I dont even think youll get close. If you have a DSM modded to make all that power and then you "turn" it down to some stupidly low power level its gonna be like driving a Kia Rio unless your in the gas all the time.

My advise is to take the money you are about to piss away on this project and get a decent sized turbo like a 20g, 50trim etc. Put in some suspension work, weight savings, LSD, some good tire and tune tune tune. Putting down mid 300s whp with a light balanced car will be plenty fast. And if it isnt, your a few mods away from supporting a HX30 anyway.

This sounds firmiliar... Maybe like my post on page 1?

I didn't even notice he was FWD ... Stupid is all I have to say now. :thumbdown

 

[sweet97]

This sounds firmiliar... Maybe like my post on page 1?

I didn't even notice he was FWD ... Stupid is all I have to say now. :thumbdown

I agree with the 20G/50 trim and the pla to add AWD to the Spyder is as I understand it expensive and NOT easy or enjoyable to do. This car will be having a LOT of down time both for the work and repairs. My 50 trim is not any fun at 14 psi, how could something potentially flowing 25% more even be into boost at 14 PSI?
Stupid is really uncalled for. If some people did not have dreams and attemt to make them come true we would not be driving the cars we are now. Spyder has a dream, a vision on what he would like his car to be. This Spyder will in time settle to where it will be and who knows?!!
I would not bother with the Cyclone intake. I don't think the Holset would notice and it's pretty much a gimmicky piece not used by those who know.
Back to the 1G. The stock TB, intake and head with some port work will work fine including the rail!

 

[Billios996]

Ditch the cyclone manifold, it's useless without the butterfly and actuators and control.

Granny shift at 4k = low performance for wife and valet

 

[TurboGeoff]

Haha , i forgot it was FWD, man i wanna see the look on your wifes face when she punches it to get on the freeway, then at 4k the car lights em up and almost spins into a wall. "WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO TO THE CAR???"

 

[dsm10sec]

Stupid is really uncalled for. If some people did not have dreams and attemt to make them come true we would not be driving the cars we are now. Spyder has a dream, a vision on what he would like his car to be.

Dreams are fine, but I've seen 480 whp CIVICS that spin ALL THE WAY THROUGH 4th unless they have slicks on... Think about that for a minute.

Haha , i forgot it was FWD, man i wanna see the look on your wifes face when she punches it to get on the freeway, then at 4k the car lights em up and almost spins into a wall. "WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO TO THE CAR???"

 

[98spyderboost]

Haha , i forgot it was FWD, man i wanna see the look on your wifes face when she punches it to get on the freeway, then at 4k the car lights em up and almost spins into a wall. "WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO TO THE CAR???"

hMM That would be funny

 

[98spyderboost]

I agree with the 20G/50 trim and the pla to add AWD to the Spyder is as I understand it expensive and NOT easy or enjoyable to do. This car will be having a LOT of down time both for the work and repairs. My 50 trim is not any fun at 14 psi, how could something potentially flowing 25% more even be into boost at 14 PSI?
Stupid is really uncalled for. If some people did not have dreams and attemt to make them come true we would not be driving the cars we are now. Spyder has a dream, a vision on what he would like his car to be. This Spyder will in time settle to where it will be and who knows?!!
I would not bother with the Cyclone intake. I don't think the Holset would notice and it's pretty much a gimmicky piece not used by those who know.
Back to the 1G. The stock TB, intake and head with some port work will work fine including the rail!

Well AWD is a must have. This thing just spins on wet ground, period. Plus I love the way AWDs handle and having an AWD spyder would rock.
So you wouldnt bother with the cyclone? Hmmm. That seems to be the general consensus.
Your saying my build-up should really just be based off a 1g head, TB, etc. Even when I strap on the holset? How far does a ported/stock setup go? What kinda power is too BIG for the 1G topend setup? Will the holset even be efficient with it, without going all out?

 

[Maglin]

Wow man. The HX-35 flows way more than 60 lbs/min. Not to sure how mcuh but I think it's more in the 70 lbs/min range. That is running 30-35 PSI. This turbo can hold 40 PSI. If you haven't seen the compressor map it has a hugh efficency range which is one of the things that make the HX-35 a great turbo. At the least here are the things you are going to need to get this thing running a in a decent mannor.

880+ CC injectors
AFPR
255 LPH Walbro
A big FMIC
New 3" intake and good filter
Can use the 2G MAS
New Tranny (either TRE or Shep is recomended. Race Preped not just rebuilt)
LSD or Spool
3" Turbo Back Exhaust
Tublular 2.5" or 3" O2 Housing
Manual Boost Controler

That is the minimum you will need. If you only want to push 15 PSI it should reach full spool around 4500 RPMs. That is very high in the power band, and pretty much go from tame bunny to a fierce Lion in a heartbeat. The HX-35 at only 15 psi will probably put you around 325-350ish WHP as it does flow a lot of air even at low boost. I don't think a HX-40 should be in your future plans until you plan to have a stip only car. The HX-35 is pushing it for a DD. It flows just a tad more than a FP3065 and spools about 200 RPMs higher. As for going to say 22 psi for fun to 15 psi for the wife isn't a good idea. Not to sure about DSMlink but usually you have to tune for the boost you are running and that would require you to have 2 different tunes and a reprogram of the ECU or it will just not be fun to drive at 15psi period.

I'm going to be running a HX-35 on the Street and a H1E (HX-40 Basicly) on some rare occasions on the strip. I'm not going to say your stupid cause your not. I do think converting to AWD would be a very worth while adventure. You will probably have traction problems at boost onset in 1/2nd gears and even into 3rd. I'm using a 9 1/2x12x3.5 Sparco FMIC which I think is just big enough for the HX-35. I have a fully built 6 bolt so I'm not worried about my bottom end. MAFT isn't a necessity but I plan to run one cause it allows me to run a CAI a lot easier than a Stock MAS does. So good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[dsm10sec]

Not to sure how mcuh but I think it's more in the 70 lbs/min range

Stick to what you know not what you think.

 

[98spyderboost]

Wow man. The HX-35 flows way more than 60 lbs/min. Not to sure how mcuh but I think it's more in the 70 lbs/min range. That is running 30-35 PSI. This turbo can hold 40 PSI. If you haven't seen the compressor map it has a hugh efficency range which is one of the things that make the HX-35 a great turbo. At the least here are the things you are going to need to get this thing running a in a decent mannor.

880+ CC injectors
AFPR
255 LPH Walbro
A big FMIC
New 3" intake and good filter
Can use the 2G MAS
New Tranny (either TRE or Shep is recomended. Race Preped not just rebuilt)
LSD or Spool
3" Turbo Back Exhaust
Tublular 2.5" or 3" O2 Housing
Manual Boost Controler

That is the minimum you will need. If you only want to push 15 PSI it should reach full spool around 4500 RPMs. That is very high in the power band, and pretty much go from tame bunny to a fierce Lion in a heartbeat. The HX-35 at only 15 psi will probably put you around 325-350ish WHP as it does flow a lot of air even at low boost. I don't think a HX-40 should be in your future plans until you plan to have a stip only car. The HX-35 is pushing it for a DD. It flows just a tad more than a FP3065 and spools about 200 RPMs higher. As for going to say 22 psi for fun to 15 psi for the wife isn't a good idea. Not to sure about DSMlink but usually you have to tune for the boost you are running and that would require you to have 2 different tunes and a reprogram of the ECU or it will just not be fun to drive at 15psi period.

I'm going to be running a HX-35 on the Street and a H1E (HX-40 Basicly) on some rare occasions on the strip. I'm not going to say your stupid cause your not. I do think converting to AWD would be a very worth while adventure. You will probably have traction problems at boost onset in 1/2nd gears and even into 3rd. I'm using a 9 1/2x12x3.5 Sparco FMIC which I think is just big enough for the HX-35. I have a fully built 6 bolt so I'm not worried about my bottom end. MAFT isn't a necessity but I plan to run one cause it allows me to run a CAI a lot easier than a Stock MAS does. So good luck and let us know how it turns out.

I bow to you
Seriously thank you for making that post. It does help ALOT.

Thanks

 

[Maglin]

NP... And the reason for a tubular O2 housing is because if you do plan to run it at only 15 PSI it will be pretty hard to control boost creep at that setting. Also thinking about it at 15 PSI a manual boost controler will have a pretty good spike I'm guessing as the boost will probably come on pretty quick. I'd probably say you could see boost spikes upwards of 18-19 PSI which is very bad cause at those levels your talking a hugh momentary jump in HP on a stock 7 blot bottom end. An electronic boost controller might would be be safest route to go. I hear the Porlific B is a great boost controller for the money. Just thought about that and wanted to thow that at ya.

 

[spyder3634]

Wow man. The HX-35 flows way more than 60 lbs/min. Not to sure how mcuh but I think it's more in the 70 lbs/min range. That is running 30-35 PSI. This turbo can hold 40 PSI. If you haven't seen the compressor map it has a hugh efficency range which is one of the things that make the HX-35 a great turbo. At the least here are the things you are going to need to get this thing running a in a decent mannor.

880+ CC injectors
AFPR
255 LPH Walbro
A big FMIC
New 3" intake and good filter
Can use the 2G MAS
New Tranny (either TRE or Shep is recomended. Race Preped not just rebuilt)
LSD or Spool
3" Turbo Back Exhaust
Tublular 2.5" or 3" O2 Housing
Manual Boost Controler

That is the minimum you will need. If you only want to push 15 PSI it should reach full spool around 4500 RPMs. That is very high in the power band, and pretty much go from tame bunny to a fierce Lion in a heartbeat. The HX-35 at only 15 psi will probably put you around 325-350ish WHP as it does flow a lot of air even at low boost. I don't think a HX-40 should be in your future plans until you plan to have a stip only car. The HX-35 is pushing it for a DD. It flows just a tad more than a FP3065 and spools about 200 RPMs higher. As for going to say 22 psi for fun to 15 psi for the wife isn't a good idea. Not to sure about DSMlink but usually you have to tune for the boost you are running and that would require you to have 2 different tunes and a reprogram of the ECU or it will just not be fun to drive at 15psi period.

I'm going to be running a HX-35 on the Street and a H1E (HX-40 Basicly) on some rare occasions on the strip. I'm not going to say your stupid cause your not. I do think converting to AWD would be a very worth while adventure. You will probably have traction problems at boost onset in 1/2nd gears and even into 3rd. I'm using a 9 1/2x12x3.5 Sparco FMIC which I think is just big enough for the HX-35. I have a fully built 6 bolt so I'm not worried about my bottom end. MAFT isn't a necessity but I plan to run one cause it allows me to run a CAI a lot easier than a Stock MAS does. So good luck and let us know how it turns out.

a few things, the holset thread said the hx35 is around 60, hx40 is around 70lb/min. two, people are runnin the hx40 on the street, why not? 500+hp street car? of course they are out there. three, why not a basic rebuild from shep? how fast are you planning on going? people are running low low 11's on a basic rebuild are a very happy. i would say that the hx35 is a litter bigger than the fp 3052 and the hx40 is a little bigger than the 3065

 

[Maglin]

a few things, the holset thread said the hx35 is around 60, hx40 is around 70lb/min. two, people are runnin the hx40 on the street, why not? 500+hp street car? of course they are out there. three, why not a basic rebuild from shep? how fast are you planning on going? people are running low low 11's on a basic rebuild are a very happy. i would say that the hx35 is a litter bigger than the fp 3052 and the hx40 is a little bigger than the 3065

I've not actually seen a compressor chart in lbs/min so I was taking a stab with an educated guess as far as flow goes. Their are people running 550ish WHP with the HX-35 which would place it between the 3052 adn 3065. The HX-40 has produced 523 WHP @ 20 PSI. I've read one guy who put a HX-35 on a 2.3 that reached 28 PSI before 4,000 RPM's. These are very capable turbo's. I say the HX-40 isn't a good DD turbo cause the spool is quit up their and on a FWD car it's just to much for what this application calls for.

 

[Morphius]

14 psi on this big ass turbo will be far out of its efficiency.

Irregardless of how many pounds of boost, any 2.0, 2.3 or 2.4 isn't going to be anywhere near efficient with the Holset's. The motors don't move enough air.

Thus, running 14psi on it, isn't going to kill it.

 

[Morphius]

I've not actually seen a compressor chart in lbs/min so I was taking a stab with an educated guess as far as flow goes.

You can look here at my maps:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691&page=1&pp=25

It's a simple conversion.

 

[98spyderboost]

You can look here at my maps:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145691&page=1&pp=25

It's a simple conversion.

Thanks Morphius! I was hopin you would drop by What do you think;
If you run a fully supporting top and mildly built bottom end what sort of HP range could you run effectively? Remember the idea isnt to get the most possible but to make it as adjustable as possible. What could one expect between 20 and 35psi? Is it even possible to use the holeset with a setup that tunes so widely?

Sorry but I'm not really up on the more complicated aspects of tuning yet. still just planning.

 

[spyder3634]

I've not actually seen a compressor chart in lbs/min so I was taking a stab with an educated guess as far as flow goes. Their are people running 550ish WHP with the HX-35 which would place it between the 3052 adn 3065. The HX-40 has produced 523 WHP @ 20 PSI. I've read one guy who put a HX-35 on a 2.3 that reached 28 PSI before 4,000 RPM's. These are very capable turbo's. I say the HX-40 isn't a good DD turbo cause the spool is quit up their and on a FWD car it's just to much for what this application calls for.

good call, although i have a 1997 gst, and i am planning on a 2.4 built motor, with every supporting mod and a holset turbo. i want an hx40 but i can get hx35's for free, so i will probably go with a 35. i think the added torque along with later spool due to the huge turbo, i should be ok with fwd.

 

[defrag010]

I'm going to be running a HX-35 on the Street and a H1E (HX-40 Basicly) on some rare occasions on the strip.

Where are you getting your H1E from?
How are you going to determine which size turbine wheel it has? some H1E's have the 60mm turbine wheel, which is the same as an HX35, and others have a 65mm turbine wheel which is the same as an HX40.

 

[zross1]

Thanks Morphius! I was hopin you would drop by What do you think;
If you run a fully supporting top and mildly built bottom end what sort of HP range could you run effectively? Remember the idea isnt to get the most possible but to make it as adjustable as possible. What could one expect between 20 and 35psi? Is it even possible to use the holeset with a setup that tunes so widely?

Sorry but I'm not really up on the more complicated aspects of tuning yet. still just planning.

You said refering to hp "remember, the idea isn't to get the most possible but to make it as adjustable as possible". Like many people have already said you won't be able to accomplish this goal with this turbo. It's not really a adjustable turbo. If you plan on setting it up for it's potential and then back down to 14 psi for your wife you will be tuning and tuning and tuning.... Is there a reason your so set on this one and wouldn't consider getting something else? Even if you get all the supporting mods there is only so much a stock 7 bolt can take. But the great thing is even a 7 bolt can take quite a bit of abuse if you just tune properly and luck out to not get cw. So why not get a turbo that you can tune around MUCH easier and still get fantastic performance from that you can still build around your 7 bolt? You'll keep turning up the boost more and more because the turbo can push more untill you break something. Unless your going to build a motor and plan on using this turbo 25psi up there are just too many other turbos that will get you where you want. Good luck what ever you do.