1G Clutch problems after tranny swap

[Alex Brunner]

A little background first I guess. I bought my current 94 eclipse a while back, near the beginning of the year. Had some issues, which I believe to be related to sucking water through the MAF causing the car to buck under throttle when it rains. It never gave me trouble until the tranny area started making noise. Found silver fluid in the t-case and tranny. So fast forward a bit, and I got a 2.2 HD unit from Jack's.

The old transmission shifted perfectly up to the day I pulled it out, silver fluid and all. Then I got the new one on, drove around for a day, it was pretty good for about an hour. After that, a few gears were notchy, went in without a grind, but felt resistant. I tested for drag the next day, it rolled a little bit by 7000 RPM, so I adjusted the clutch, lifted the friction point to about where it was with the old tranny. Still the same symptoms, I moved it even further, but now I am out of bolt. I bled it today, still the same symptoms.

The fork is in the middle of the hole, and doesn't hit the bell housing when the clutch is fully depressed. The clutch isn't preloaded despite having the bolt almost all the way out. Specifically, first goes in fine, second is hardest, third a little easier, fourth is almost fine, fifth is perfect, and reverse is as well.

I find it hard to believe that this tranny is bad right out of the box, so I think it is a problem with the clutch hydraulics. I may know enough to replace parts, but not enough to troubleshoot little problems. If I can't figure it out soon I will go to a shop, but I would rather save myself the money and do it myself or find a local experienced DSMer.

What should be next on my list of things to check and/or replace?

 

[93AWDDSM]

Please check the Master cylinder inside the car for leaks AND check the slave for leaks as well. report back.

EDIT: while checking the master cylinder for leaks do this:
1. sit in car
2. push clutch in and then release it
3. check your pedal assembly( after step 2 if you can pull it up by hand the pedal assembly is worn and needs parts replaced)

 

[streetillEagle]

I've had my Talon for years and have always had to deal with a bad clutch engagement point. I had to mash the pedal to the floor to get it to disengage. Tried adjusting and changing every part related other than the pedal itself (because it's not broken). Due to running out of threads on the clutch pedal clip I just finally welded a nut to the end=more threads to adjust. Perfect engagement now. NOT 1 single issue since. Does it solve why? NO. Does it work? YES.

 

[93AWDDSM]

I've had my Talon for years and have always had to deal with a bad clutch engagement point. I had to mash the pedal to the floor to get it to disengage. Tried adjusting and changing every part related other than the pedal itself (because it's not broken). Due to running out of threads on the clutch pedal clip I just finally welded a nut to the end=more threads to adjust. Perfect engagement now. NOT 1 single issue since. Does it solve why? NO. Does it work? YES.

did you check your pedal assembly for wear before adding the extra nut?

I had clutch engagement/disengagement problems for three years. Finally got it fixed by replacing worn clutch pedal assembly, resurfacing flywheel,new clutch/pressure plate, new clutch fork,pivot ball shimmed(clutch fork sits toward driver side slightly),TOB. all of that helped with engagement/disengagement tremendously. I used to get drag @ 6700rpm with my old clutch set up and now I can 1st gear rev to rev limiter with no drag.

 

[Alex Brunner]

Well, there are no leaks or any slop in the pedal assembly.

 

[93AWDDSM]

It is a brand new tranny correct? also are you sure every most bit of air is out of the clutch line?

Also are you using the same clutch that was running your old transmission? IF so did you inspect the clutch disc and pressure plate as well as the flywheel step height?

follow these steps: How to Bleed a Hydraulic Clutch - Team Rip Engineering

This is from their website and I can't stress this enough : 3. During this procedure DO NOT allow your friend to "pump" the clutch pedal.

 

[Alex Brunner]

Brand new transmission, when i bled it the other day I didn't hear any air coming out of the line. I didn't remove any fittings during the swap. I didn't have a friend help, I just used a block of wood. I repeated the process about ten times.

And I didn't pull the clutch during the swap, it still holds torque fine so I didn't worry about it. Should I pull the tranny back off to check step height and component wear?

I fear component failure though. After looking at the fluid I bled out, it has a brown color to it. Should I just go ahead an replace all the hydraulics?

 

[93AWDDSM]

well first it was kind of your bad for putting a brand new tranny on worn parts.. kind of asking for failure.

-Do not bleed your clutch with a block of wood as your "buddy"
-If bleeding it the CORRECT way doesn't help I would say Pull the tranny and inspect parts for wear( check the flywheel for heat marks, check the clutch disc and the pressure plate for heat marks/cracks and checking the pivot ball/clutch fork)



This is how mine is set up, OEM exedy clutch/pressure plate, flywheel resurfaced to correct step height, I have a shim under the pivot ball( makes my clutch fork sit towards driver side slightly) New OEM clutch fork.

I have a Stage 1 basic rebuild for Jacks and I have put about 1600 miles on it so far. The first 1-500 miles felt notchy shifting but my clutch is set up perfect and now at about 1400 to current it feels great, shifts a lot easier, and I have yet to switch to REDLINE MT90 heard that works wonders for notchy shifting.

EDIT: I recently checked my master cylinder for leaking because shifting felt increasingly notchy and sure enough its wet slightly. I also had English racing replace master/slave about 6 months ago(they used NON oem parts) Now I'm going to be replacing them ASAP with OEM. also if your master is a aftermarket the rod is actually known to be shorter for adjustment. I've heard 2G master cylinder rod is longer than 1G and can be used in place but don't quote me on that because I'm not too positive.

EDIT #2: sorry for long reply, but my current master cylinder is about on it's last thread as well(I adjusted mine 2 days ago and actually turned the ROD counterclockwise to lower the pedal engagement and it did because it was engaging around 60% pedal up, once I adjusted it the engagement point was about 45% pedal up now) I also read that the engagement point is not adjustable, the master cylinder rod is to adjust the pedal either low or higher engagement on the pedal, so if you have adjusted and adjusted and it still drags, that's because you have worn parts.

my clutch pedal(before adjustment)
-top of pedal
-
-engage
-
-
-
-
-
-floor

clutch after adjustment
-top of pedal
-
-
-
-engage
-
-
-floor

 

[Alex Brunner]

The clutch was redone with the engine rebuild just 20k miles ago, possibly newer. That is well within the usable life of a clutch, and like I said, it worked perfectly in the old transmission. The ball and fork still looked to be in good condition, greased those, and it sits towards the driver's side.

I will redo the clutch bleed with a person in stead, I just did it with a block of wood because jafro did it and I didn't have a friend available.

On the subject of fluid though, I used Redline MT-90 with the old one and it was great. Jacks suggested the Mitsu OEM tranny fluid so I used that with the build. I think I may go back though, I never see anyone actually using the OEM fluid....

 

[93AWDDSM]

your problem since the master/slave are not leaking is most likely the air in the line. bleed the line and then bleed the slave itself. report back, thanks.

edit: redline vs oem fluid which feels better? did the redline feel notchy vs oem?

 

[Alex Brunner]

I have not used both in the same transmission, but it was all I used in my old one. Even through massive overheating (yes, I ran in into the ground waiting for the new one) due to long trips, it still worked kept my transmission shifting perfectly.

 

[93AWDDSM]

Guess I will have to try it now, let us know how the clutch bleed goes.

 

[Alex Brunner]

Well, the clutch is fully bled, cleaned out the nasty fluid that was in there, still as clunky as ever.

Does it mean anything if downshifts are much smoother than upshifts?

 

[Alex Brunner]

Well, I am going to bump this one more time in hopes of fixing it. I suspect part failure, but I don't know if my logic is sound, or which part it might me.

The biggest thing I have noticed after driving on it for a while is just how inconsistent it is. Right when I start it and drive away the clutch feels like it is working fine, then I have to shift a few times and it starts dragging. Get it on the highway for a little while, downshift for an off-ramp and it is fine, but if I have to shift frequently, in traffic for example, it starts starts dragging. This seems indicative of a leak, but I can't find one, so I figure it must be some sort of internal problem.

This is just my best guess though, I don't really have any idea if this is a sound theory.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

It could be that the disk doesn't slide freely on the input splines.

 

[93AWDDSM]

Since you found no leaks on either the slave or master, it would be a good idea to pull the transmission and inspect parts for wear.

 

[Alex Brunner]

Bringing this up again, replaced the clutch, pressure plate, and got the flywheel resurfaced, adjusted the clutch, no drag even with all four wheels off the ground. Still shifts like crap. Sending an email to jack as well as this.