Car Won't Start... Timing off?

[brynden29]

Hey guys,
I posted my story in another thread...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257396

I repulled the head yesterday to make sure I cleaned off all the old gasket material. I put it all back together and it will not start. It turns over but will not start. I checked all the connectors, everything looks right. I know that my intake cam slipped a few teeth when I was loosening it. I thought I got it back in the right place. I have attached some pics of the cams. Do they look right? Obviously I can not start it to check the timing, so I have to use the marks to get it close. I noticed that the dowel pins for the cams are not exactly at 12 o'clock. The Intake cam looks to be off one tooth. Could that be why it won't start?

I also did a cold compression check (because I can not get my car to start) and got 115-115-115-120. I know that cold test are not good, but what do you think? I reused the same head gasket because it has only been on the car for 2 days. Could that be the problem? Any suggestions would be great.

Here are the pictures...

 

[AuntiesTSI]

Did you check the timing marks on the crank and oil pump?

What kind of HG did you use?

 

[brynden29]

I did not check the marks on the crank or oil pump. I zip tied the timing belt to the cam gears to avoid timing problems. But before I zip tied it the intake cam it skipped a few teeth.

I used a 4 layer metal DSM gasket. Could it be a problem that I torqued it down 2 days ago, then removed it, cleaned it off a little and reinstalled it. Could that be the problem?

 

[AuntiesTSI]

From what I understand the MLS gaskets don't form fit like the OEM and Felpro type so I wouldn't assume it to be a sealing problem. You also might want to check if you are getting fuel and a good spark.

 

[brynden29]

Oh, sorry, we checked spark and it is good, and there is fuel in the rail. It shoots out when turned over. I have not checked to see if the injectors are firing, I just assume they are because I can smell gas on the plugs when I turn it over a few times.

 

[brynden29]

I bought the OEM DSM 4 layer metal headgasket from DSMparts.com.

 

[AuntiesTSI]

I'm sorry, I meant the composite types.

 

[drewvr4]

you need to check your timing down low...also check and make sure you connected the crank sensor over by the timing cover when you pulled the head...i would guess something is just unplugged

 

[brynden29]

Crank sensor? Where is that?

 

[drewvr4]

look where the cam cover meets the timing cover on the right side twords the back, you will see a connector comming out of the timing cover, make sure its plugged in

 

[brynden29]

Yeah, I am pretty sure that all the connections are plugged in. I will double check.

 

[1glaserturbo]

I'm guessing timing, only because something like this has happened to me before. Be sure to check the crank/oil pump gear for timing as well as the intake and exhaust cams. I somehow jumped 4 teeth after a quick drive to Waffle House, causing my car to not start for 3 days while I diagnosed. Good luck!

 

[BUCK]

Nice CLEAN 1G - & nice TRY with the Zip Ties but you failed - You need to bite the Bullet & Time it right... Good Luck

A really handy tip for setting the timing belt tension is if you are
putting a new hydraulic tensioner on leave the pin in until you
tighten the tensioner pulley, ALSO when you can slip the Pin in The Tensioner is in the CORRECT position so you can check Tension Setting WITH THE PIN.

& Here's my 2 cents worth on TB Timing & Tensioning...

I just bought some 8MM ALLTHREAD at a Hardware Store & double nutted 2 Nuts at the end for a Tool.

- If you were to watch what the TB does when tensioned you'd see that the TB literally "rolls" into Time as the Tensioner takes out the Slack at the proper point & pulls slack out of the front side of the TB loop.

- Set Sprockets & Balance Shafts per - http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html - EXCEPT....

- It MAY be necessary to BIAS = Mis-Time Exhaust Cam Sprocket ONE Tooth Clockwise - Belt Tensioning process will roll it back into time.

-Don't forget to apply Soft Loctite or RTV to Tensioner Fasteners & apply Final Torque.

-Run ALLTHREAD Tool in until Tensioner Arm Bottoms against Tensioner Rod - PULL GRENADE PIN - Then run ALLTHREAD tool in until Tensioner Arm just Bottoms against Tensioner Body.

-Basically you preload the Eccentric Tension Pulley enough to achieve the correct Gap between Tension Arm & Tensioner Body - SO...

-PRE-LOAD the Eccentric Tension Pulley & snug Pulley Bolt (I used soft Loctite on this Bolt too) - My favorite Tool to apply the Load on the Pulley is a long good quality Square Shanked Screwdriver that lays on one of the Water Pump Bolt Heads nicely for leverage.

-Back off ALLTHREAD TOOL a few Turns thus letting the Tensioner FULLY Tension the T/Belt - but you can leave ALLTHREAD TOOL in place.

- Check Belt Timing Marks - This is where you may see that you have to regroup on initial Timing Belt installation & Bias the Belt as I said at First - Note that of course only every OTHER time Crank Timing Marks line up wil Cam Sprocket Dowels be Up.

- Spin Crank 6 Turns so Timing Belt can take it's initial SEAT in Sprocket Grooves.

- Check Tension setting by trying to reinsert Grenade Pin in Tensioner & / or check gap size with Drill Bit.

- If gap is too large you have UNDER TENSIONED BELT, run ALLTHREAD Tool back in to FULLY depress Tensioner and put MORE PRE-LOAD under Tensioner Pulley with long Screwdriver & SIMULTANEOUSLY loosen Pulley Bolt putting more Tension on Belt, & then Snug up Pulley Bolt while applying Load.

-Back off ALLTHREAD TOOL a few Turns thus letting the Tensioner FULLY Tension the T/Belt - but you can leave ALLTHREAD TOOL in place backed off & not touching Tensioner.

- Check Tension setting by trying to reinsert Grenade Pin in Tensioner & / or check gap size with Drill Bit.

- If Grenade Pin checks Sat apply Final Torque to Tension Pulley Bolt & RECHECK TENSION SETTING .

- If Gap is too small you have OVER-TENSIONED Belt - Back off Tension Pulley Pre-Load a little & RECHECK TENSION SETTING.

- Install just enuff Belts & Pulleys to run Water Pump - attach Battery charger & run Motor with NO Timing Covers & no Alternator - you can leave ALLTHREAD TOOL backed off & of course not touching Tensioner while you do this.

- Immediately when you get it running Check Oil Pressure & then Check for Coolant & Oil Leaks - Check your new Water Pump & Water Pump O Ring, etc, etc... Be ready to Reset Base Timing & Base Idle as it comes up to Full Running Temp - Start off with CAS at middle of adjustment if you don't know where it was.

- After a good long idle or 2 re-check Tension with Grenade Pin, Remove ALLTHREAD tool & Button up Covers if all is SAT - Expect to see one good stretch as Belt heats up & "sets" in the Pulleys & hence TB may need one good re-setting after initial idle.

Word to the wise. Measure any drillbit you use as I had 2 - 5/32"
drillbits and they varied in thickness by almost a millimeter. When
your working with a gap tolerance that is only 0.7mm wide a 1mm error is unacceptable. I picked the one that was closest and used that one.