Car torn apart, I need help!!!!!

[kneipperk]

Hey guys. This might be a long shot. I still haven't got around to putting my damn 90 tsi awd back together. 200,000 miles. It was originally my baby, sold it to a friend and then he pretty much gave me the car back a year later. All he told me was that it wouldn't run, and if he could get it to actually start it was running like death.... When I went to pick up the car to tow it, I noticed that 1 of the cylinders had the threaded piece of a compression tester in it, and the spark plug was laying off to the side and had been smashed. So I towed the car to my friends parents house (the only place i could find to store it) and the car has been sittin there for almost 2 years. I put a different spark plug in and tried to start it. Vrr Vrr Vrr CLANK! so I pulled the spark plug out and it was smashed as well. I believe it was cylinder 3. I ended up pulling the engine in a day, went another day and tore it down and found nothing. Was expecting to find a valve so badly bent that it would travel far enough out its way to smash the spark plug. I ended up pulling every valve and to the eye they appear strait, not possible to be bent far enough to do this. Since then my car has just been sitting in pieces ..... It's to the point where they need the car off their property. Multiple local machine shops want $250 just to inspect and hot tank and deck the head. +whatever parts are needed. Im pretty sure its not a head problem. Upon further inspection I noticed that the knock sensor was melted and there was absolutely no black goo left. After thinking for awhile i'm wondering if the knock sensor was the reason it quit working in the first place, but doesn't explain what would cause damage to the spark plugs. No noticeable damage to the pistons either. Was hoping maybe the dumb ass that tried to do a compression test dropped a small socket or somethin into the cylinder, but didn't notice anything fall loose when I tore the head off. Im so lost with this. Would hate to spend $1000 bucks on a stock rebuild just to find the car not running. Any input? Wish I knew more people into cars around here, but everybody that is knowlegeable enough doesn't have time for me . I've drove dsm's for about 10 years and never once had to take 1 to a shop. I have done everything I can to keep them on the road. I NEED HELP!!!!!

 

[Breezio69]

Is the connecting rod broken on #3? Maybe the cranking from the starter pushes on it and makes the piston hit the plug?

I could see it if the rod were broken it could catch the skirt lower down on the piston and push it up far enough to hit it. Have you taken the oil pan off? If you hand crank the block does#3 move?

 

[kneipperk]

Please feel free to private message me. If anybody is in the denver metro area, or close enough to want to take a look, and/or help me.. that would be awesome! I can supply the transportation if needed. I can pay somebody if needed for help. By no means am I rich haha. It's still a recession as far as i'm concerned. But I need to get this thing going. Will supply drinks, smoke, food or whatever keeps you motivated. Thanks guys

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

If the car is bending/breaking spark plugs then there is damage to the piston. If nothing is in the cylinder and the valves are fine the piston hit the spark plug. Did you check the oil for metal shavings? Did you discover anything when you pulled the oil pan? How do the rods look?

 

[kneipperk]

Is the connecting rod broken on #3? Maybe the cranking from the starter pushes on it and makes the piston hit the plug?

I could see it if the rod were broken it could catch the skirt lower down on the piston and push it up far enough to hit it. Have you taken the oil pan off? If you hand crank the block does#3 move?

Yeah I tore the whole thing down. Spun the crank and rods seems fine. Piston doesn't seem to travel any further than normal

If the car is bending/breaking spark plugs then there is damage to the piston. If nothing is in the cylinder and the valves are fine the piston hit the spark plug. Did you check the oil for metal shavings? Did you discover anything when you pulled the oil pan? How do the rods look?

didnt check the oil for shavings. But no metal objects came out while draining oil thats for sure

 

[Breezio69]

I've never seen a piston hit a spark plug and not do damage... well, in the first place, I've never seen a piston just jump up and hit one... but I have seen one where a connecting rod broke, the entire center of the piston was gone. There was literally only 1/2" around the edges and the whole center blown out.

Can you get pictures of the entire cylinder in question? Top with piston down, piston up, side shot with piston up focusing on the clearance from piston top to the deck, piston down shot of con rod.

Is the piston cracked from the bottom?

What plugs are in it? Maybe your buddy got an autozone special.. twice in my life I've been handed plugs where there has accidently been a different plug in a set I bought. Different parts numbers on the box and all, just probably put back wrong or was supposed to be stocked next to it etc... are all 4 plugs the same/ same length threads?

 

[kneipperk]

I've never seen a piston hit a spark plug and not do damage... well, in the first place, I've never seen a piston just jump up and hit one... but I have seen one where a connecting rod broke, the entire center of the piston was gone. There was literally only 1/2" around the edges and the whole center blown out.

Can you get pictures of the entire cylinder in question? Top with piston down, piston up, side shot with piston up focusing on the clearance from piston top to the deck, piston down shot of con rod.

Is the piston cracked from the bottom?

What plugs are in it? Maybe your buddy got an autozone special.. twice in my life I've been handed plugs where there has accidently been a different plug in a set I bought. Different parts numbers on the box and all, just probably put back wrong or was supposed to be stocked next to it etc... are all 4 plugs the same/ same length threads?

I've heard valves were strong^^^^ hahaha. but umm. I will definately go out there and play around. gotta put pistons back in (isn't hard) and Will take pics. And yeah all 4 plugs were the same, from a box of spares i had laying around. so it was 1 smashed plug that was in the car of his, and 1 smashed plug of mine. I believe they are ngk bkr6e? been so long since I have been in the dsm scene.

It sucks because there is soooo much carbon buildup that its really hard to see. You would think that there would be obvious fresh metal marks wherever something had hit. And I'm kinda on my own with this 1. My buddy that usually helps me has moved, and i'd say he was 50% of the work. He had the knowledge and I did all the wrenching if that makes any sense

 

[Breezio69]

Lol, well, the piston took out the entire cylinder, all 4 valves and mushroomed the spark plug. The con rod also decided to exit the oil pan and the back of the block (this was a boosted h22a btw, not a dsm)... we were also between vegas and slc when it happend, bfe...

Get a pic of the rods out as well since they are already out, and piston top/bottom..

How excessive is the build up? Is there an indent or chips in the build up where it hit?

 

[kneipperk]

not that I remember, but I'm digging threw pictures right now.

not that i remember, but i'm digging threw pictures right now.

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I also found a video that may be helpful. I dont remember this smoke. And the cam doesn't quite pick up the sound i recall hearing. Youtube link coming shortly

[ame=http://youtu.be/7tdlIGszMVs]Talon no start - YouTube[/ame]
Damn I wish I would have done more things while the car was still in 1 piece. A compression test being 1 of these things

 

[WES_393]

Wow, that's one hell of a bent plug. It really looks like a bent valve is smashing into it, but you said the valves were straight as far as you could tell. So I'd start by getting some new plugs. I'd suggest NGK BR7ES. Notice there's no P in that part number; They're non-projected plugs so they won't stick into the cylinder as far.

 

[kneipperk]

not that I remember, but I'm digging threw pictures right now.

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I also found a video that may be helpful. I dont remember this smoke. And the cam doesn't quite pick up the sound i recall hearing. Youtube link coming shortly

Talon no start - YouTube
Damn I wish I would have done more things while the car was still in 1 piece. A compression test being 1 of these things

Wow, that's one hell of a bent plug. It really looks like a bent valve is smashing into it, but you said the valves were straight as far as you could tell. So I'd start by getting some new plugs. I'd suggest NGK BR7ES. Notice there's no P in that part number; They're non-projected plugs so they won't stick into the cylinder as far.

I'll have to double check on part numbers. Im pretty sure that there was a ngk g-power in the car when I got it, and i ended up replacing with a v-power. used to be more familiar with these numbers than my own telephone number haha. Been years. I tend to loose it if i dont use it

 

[Breezio69]

Almost sounds like bad timing in the video. But then if the piston hit a valve to in turn hit the spark plug you'd have marks on the piston and more than likely a very noticebly bent valve.

 

[kneipperk]

Probably pointless, but heres another view of the no start vid [ame=http://youtu.be/HlpAqgfnluU]another talon no start vid - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Breezio69]

So, I'm confused... is the car "torn apart" or is it still together?

 

[kneipperk]

So, I'm confused... is the car "torn apart" or is it still together?

unfortanetly in pieces. Tore it apart about 2 years ago. Video and pictures are from the day I got the car

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The Balance shaft belt broke after the engine was out. It was in pretty bad shape and tore very easy, but was still in 1 piece before the engine was pulled

 

[joescool2008]

I'd say it slightly jumped timing and thats why it ran very poorly and eventually made contact with your valves slightly bending them into your plugs. Pictures of the bottom of the head will tell the story much better. I've had piston to valve contact before and it just made the original marks on the pistons look deeper.

 

[6damian6]

Like i said before, put sparkplugs in all 4 cylinders and measure how much they go in. Possibly threads for #3 go deeper then suppose to or maybe its going in crooked.

Thats all i got .

 

[kneipperk]

I'd say it slightly jumped timing and thats why it ran very poorly and eventually made contact with your valves slightly bending them into your plugs. Pictures of the bottom of the head will tell the story much better. I've had piston to valve contact before and it just made the original marks on the pistons look deeper.

I'm going out there tomorrow to take pics and do a little tinkering around. Too bad I dont have a garage, or the car would be here with me and would have been done a long time ago. It's only about 15 miles away but its about to get dark and I have a little business to do out there tomorrow anyways