Car not cranking after battery relocation

[DSMnoobsause]

ive never seen a battery box thats 100% air tight liquid spill proof with custom vent to outside of car. yes i have seen them locked down in a spill proof casing. that paticular tie down is deseigned to open vent fumes on purpose. (but its also a marine battery tie down thats intended to be in a bildge compartment) but didnt think that would matter for street purposes.

picture should give a good hint as to how to run wires

Ya it's more dangerious because we dont have a metal bulkhead between the back and the inside of the car. That's why you would need one of these.
Moroso : Category Display

 

[ishnish]

Wouldn't I need a second person to do the voltage drop test while cranking?

 

[NHerron]

Not necessarily, if you have a way to extend the probes (alligator clips or something with x feet of wire) and a way to keep the probes in place, from falling off. But another person wouldn't hurt

 

[dsmcurse]

first of all im gonna point out the obvious, you need to have a nice set of tools, flush cuts, open end stripers, stripper crimper combo, crimper, wire cutter, mini torch, heat shrink, non insolated connectors, flux paste, solder, and heat shrink.

not to try and sound like im talkin S on your mechanical skills but im willing to bet the starter wire that you said you solder extended is the problem. how well did you make the connections? every one has there own lil style of gettin the job done, its all good, as long as you get the job done correctly.

when i put lugs on the end of the cable i take i fine lil tiny dril bit and carefully drill a single hole in it after i crimped it with nice crimpers, i then dab in some flux paste then i fill that sucker with solder. followed by a nice peice of heat shrink.

and as far as extending a wire, i never ever just solder to peices of frayed out crap together. i use a nice non insolated butt connecor then flux paste and solder. if the butt connector is big enough ill do the lil tiny drill bit trick as well. and always use heat shrink when finished.

replace the starter wire, take it off throw it away and run a brand new peice of 4gauge from the starter post to your buss bar that you have in the car. i bet that will get you all fixed up

 

[NHerron]

Maybe that is the ticket, it's possible. But maybe he's experimented enough, and a couple quick tests will guarantee the answer

 

[ishnish]

Thanks for all the info guys. It's 11 pm over here in Cali and I seriously just got back inside from trying to push start my car. FAIL. I could not for the life of me run fast enough pushing the car on my own. What a sad walk it was back to the same parking spot .

Anyway, I noticed that as I had the door open the whole time, my lights were dimming slowly, slowly, slowly. I turned on my gauges to check if they'd even turn on. They did but they were SUPER dim. Not like before (as in a few hours ago). Then I turned them off and tried turning them on again. Before the needles could even sweep for an opening ceremony, they stopped midway and the gauges died with the needles stuck midway. Sooo.... now I'm wondering if it's the battery..

If it's the starter wire then that is going to SUCK on my end cause I literally have to wait until next pay day just to buy a few extra feet of 4 gauge wire.

dsmcurse, I don't have all the nice tools you have, but do have most of them. But I definitely didn't extend my starter wire the way you described. I just frayed out the end of my old starter wire, frayed out the end of my new starter wire that would go into my distribution box, then twisted them together and soldered it all to one piece. And of course wrapping it in electrical tape thereafter.

Yes, I've definitely tested and tested and tested. I keep thinking maybe it's the fuses? Now I'm thinking battery. But I'll leave that up to you guys since most of you seem to know more than me about electrical (I HATE electrical). My only other guess could be that all of my wire didn't fit into the distribution box (a lot of the 0 guage wire was frayed out because it just all couldn't fit) but I figured since they all touch within the insulation anyway, maybe all of the current will be there anyway. Hard to explain but yeah.

 

[NHerron]

First check battery voltage (across battery) as is
Then what the battery voltage is (across battery) while cranking (make sure it cranks)

Then do the other two things in post #25. GL.

 

[ishnish]

When you say check battery voltage across battery as is, do you mean to check it now as it sits? Cause it sits right at 12. Well this was when I checked a few hours back. Idk what you mean by "across battery".

I would need another person to do the voltage check while cranking so I guess that's on hold.

 

[NHerron]

12.0 is a dead battery especially when there's no load

Do you have some lengths of wire you could use as extensions for the probes?

 

[ishnish]

Really? I could have swore someone on here said that if it's anything "under" 12, THEN I have an issue. So I figured this is good..

And no not that long I don't think.

 

[NHerron]

Its dead enough to not start the car

Battery Basics - How a Battery Works - Voltage

 

[yhype]

Recharge the battery as it now sounds like it has depleted its charge some, and i'm willing to bet your problem is the ground from the engine to the body is not very good. I saw you wrote that the starter is grounded to the frame not sure if this means the sub-frame or the actual body, should be to the body on a nice clean spot like you did in the trunk/hatch area.

 

[ishnish]

I'm pretty sure it's the actual body and not the sub-frame but idk. It's one of the bolt holes where the stock battery tie down used to be bolted. I sanded off the paint and primer there and grounded it. I really hope it's just the battery.

Whoops not tie down, but I believe it was where the battery tray used to be bolted.

 

[dsmcurse]

was wondering how the car is coming along man? im willing to bet all in all you've just sorta over thought this and that battery has been the problem the whole time. you earlier mentioned that your broke for a few days so i can relate to that. how the hell do you go out and buy a brand new napa gold battery for 90bucks when you have no money? sucks i know, ive beeen there. but how bout this, can you borrow a battery thats known to be good? can you maybe take the battery out of your old grandmas car just to try it and see? old grandmas dont drive much so she shouldnt mind

 

[ishnish]

So far it isn't I'm at work right now. I really really really hope you're right with the battery only being the problem. Cause I swear I really do think I did everything right. Even extending that power wire as well. Yeah exactly, I can't afford a battery at all right now . Thankfully, I do not have to go to grandma because my buddy said I can try his battery . Just counting down the 6 hours of work I have left until the moment of truth. Fingers crossed man!

<b>Update 3:</b>

Well guys, I got to borrow my friend's battery that sat at 12.47 volts when not connected which was a lot higher than my 12.0. Apparently, it was a big difference just as NHerron's link illustrated because IT WORKED!!!!!!

I did everything perfect after all!!!! I am SOOOOO relieved guys! I cannot believe that was the problem all along. Thank you all so much for all the suggestions and help!

Next task on the list is to fab up something that'll hold the battery still =) I guess my grounds and extended starter cable were all in check after all but I'm happy I double checked everything and got more grounds in as well as stepping up from a 4 gauge wire

 

[NHerron]

Good deal, glad it all worked out

 

[ThunderChild]

i know this is already resolved, but i figured id just toss some info ive gotten out.

12.65 - 12.7 volts is a fully charged battery. and on a starter load test, a good battery shouldnt drop below 10 volts. 12 volts with no load is approx 15% life, so its pretty nill.

and as far as current flow goes, yes, the more distance it travels the more voltage you need to get it there. if you are running 0 gauge wire for a starter, it should supply more than enough current up to 25 feet. electricity is lazy, it wants to take the path of least resistance. so if youre wire is too small and a long distance, resistance is too high, and instead of starting, you will just make that wire hot as hell with continued attempts, as well as discharge your battery.

anyway, glad you figured it out!

 

[ishnish]

tametalon92, that is some great info man! I never really fully understood electrical and the reasons behind why longer wire needs more distance and such. But your simple statement definitely helped. Thank you!

I am very glad I figured it out thanks to these guys

 

[ishnish]

Hey guys. Idk if any of you noticed, but the thread is marked as unsolved again because I ran into a problem just this morning. When I attempted to start my car this morning, it cranked the first time for a while until it just died. So then I tried starting it a second time at which point the car wouldn't crank anymore. The starter clicked once and that's it. Other than that, nothing. All the lights and everything turn on but that's about it. No cranking whatsoever. Do you guys think my starter died. Yesterday I brought back my battery from Oreilly's and tested it on my car. It started fine and later that day I started it again because I felt like I should make this a habit to keep the car and battery healthy. Well today, this happened. I haven't got to check the battery voltage after this attempt but I'm wondering if my battery is the problem again. They gave me back the same battery after charging it and said it holds the charge well. Idk if I can believe them. What do you guys think? Could it be the starter this time? I mean the way the car just stopped cranking, it really sounded like the starter just died. But I've NEVER had this problem before until the relocation! This is stressing me out because I had to get a ride from my friend today for school since my dad said he'd use my other car for the day.

 

[NHerron]

Most likely the battery is bad. Once the battery is dead enough, the starter won't even try to crank anymore. This is because the starter solenoid (like a relay) cannot keep connection anymore and the starter is basically disconnected from the battery.

If you know of any shops around, ask them to charge it up and load test it. I bet it drops like a rock, to less than 7 volts under 10 seconds.

Is it a battery still under warranty?

 

[ishnish]

Battery is still under warranty. Idk man cause my dad tapped the started a BUNCH of times and told me to start it and NOTHING. It would click like once and wouldn't do anything after that. We got it to push start just fine. All the interior lights turn on just fine. I had my friend try jump starting the car and the car still wouldn't start. Just a click and nothing else. I then checked the battery while my car just sat there off but with the wires on the terminals and my multimeter gave a reading of 13 volts..

 

[95weclipse]

I just did my relocation this past weekend, my car came with a 4g wire for the amp so what I did temporarily was bolted the 4 little wires going to the fuse box and the bigger positive and the 4g stereo wire together (for now!!!) I get paid friday so ill get a distribution box saturday, but the 4g wire was so long it reached about 4 foot past the trunk, so I put the ground from the trans to the same spot as the little one goes on the fire wall, then put my batt in the little cubby (2g) on the pass side ran the pos to the batt, and used a sound system 'lug' thing that you can get at walmart, it came on the car due to the system it had i n it, and ran the 4g in that then for my amps I ran a 8g wire to the amp and a smaller one for my other amp, then for the ground I had a neg lug that had a 0g opening I ran one 8g wire to the back seat bolts and a short 4g to the bolt right next to the cubby closest to the rear, and car started and runs fine even with the sub beatin, and still holds 13volts+

 

[NHerron]

Battery is still under warranty. Idk man cause my dad tapped the started a BUNCH of times and told me to start it and NOTHING. It would click like once and wouldn't do anything after that.

That trick only works if the solenoid contacts are old and worn, not if the battery isn't supplying enough juice to energize the solenoid.

We got it to push start just fine. All the interior lights turn on just fine.

That's normal because the car can run since the alternator is trying to charge the battery at that point.

I had my friend try jump starting the car and the car still wouldn't start. Just a click and nothing else. I then checked the battery while my car just sat there off but with the wires on the terminals and my multimeter gave a reading of 13 volts..

Just give it a bit more jump starting charging time and it might be able to charge it up. 13 says the other cars electrical system is at least making contact but your battery may just be that bad. Like a shorted internal cell bad

 

[ishnish]

I envy you if you are running perfectly fine with all that then I just don't understand how the heck I could mess something like this up. I feel like I did what I needed to do with more than enough current needed with my gauge wires.. This has left me devastated..

 

[95weclipse]

ok, your batt can have 13-14 volts but you need to look at your cold cranking amps, or CCAs, thats what gives the starter the juice to crank, take the batt to a oriellys or autozone or advanced auto or napa or what ever you have by you and have them load test it

Dude dont let it get you down its not something you did, it seams like theres a batt problem or your starter is garbage

can you get pics of your set up? so we can get a glimpse of whats going on