Car dies, feels bogged down, burning rubber smell, oil and metal shavings ... WHAT just happened?

[raptoranderson]

So I took my '98 2G Eclipse GST out to drop off a buddy at the Amtrak station before I headed 20 minutes south to pick up some salvage Eclipse parts from a wrecker's. It's a cold af Michigan morning and the car is a little slow to get started but it fires up after a few turns of the engine and we set off down the road.

I pull out of the side road onto the main road and get up to 5,500 rpms in first gear and drop the clutch to change into second and .... the car dies. I popped the clutch out and ... the car fires up for a second and then dies. I pop the clutch out again and .... it dies. I shift down into first and pop the clutch out and ... it doesn't feel like it's in first gear? And the car dies.

So I push it into a sideroad 25 yards down the road with my buddy steering (he had to take an Uber the rest of the way ) and I head back to my house to grab a battery charger and charge the battery. After a 10 minute walk there and back and 20 minutes of charging the battery the car fires up and I turn around to head back home.

I put the car into first gear, give it plenty of gas and ease out the clutch and the car feels bogged down? Like it's not in first gear. So I take it out of 'first', put it back into first and it feels the same way. I then try a third time and the car finally decides it likes first gear now and it drives fine so I can do a u-turn and head back.

BUT there is the unmistakably strong smell of what seemed to me like burning rubber. But that's ludicrous? I was going no more than 10mph the whole way home and I drove it more slowly and smoothly with baby-like delicacy than I have ever done in my life. When I get home I pull in and pop the hood to look for clues and find what the pictures show below: metal shavings and oil all around the cam gears and the driver's side of the engine.

What does any of this mean??

Prior issues and notes with the car:
-The car is never driven far enough for the battery to fully charge.
-The AF ratio is lean because of the bigger turbo, but there are supporting mods around the corner waiting to fix this.
-It has a stage-2 clutch and a short-shift kit: needless to say that driving is a struggle at best.

 

[gsxeclipse102]

That oil pump is trashed. Timing belt tension prob. Set too tight

 

[raptoranderson]

That oil pump is trashed. Timing belt tension prob. Set too tight

The edge of the belt is frayed too. Not quite like anything i've seen before

 

[doubleclutch]

Taking a look at your profile, you are running 18 PSI with no fuel mods or tuning solutions in addition to adjustable cam gears?

Also, 3k for the bottom end of a daily driver seems ridiculous. I understand Boostin' is probably one of the best, but that seems a bit high for what it looks like your goal is. Maybe tear it down yourself and have it cleaned up by a good engine shop and then rebuild yourself? Maybe learn something in the process?

 

[raptoranderson]

Taking a look at your profile, you are running 18 PSI with no fuel mods or tuning solutions in addition to adjustable cam gears?

Also, 3k for the bottom end of a daily driver seems ridiculous. I understand Boostin' is probably one of the best, but that seems a bit high for what it looks like your goal is. Maybe tear it down yourself and have it cleaned up by a good engine shop and then rebuild yourself? Maybe learn something in the process?

I bought the car in its current condition. The previous owner drove it completely untuned for 5,500 miles. So that engine has been long since buggered. But I would absolutely do the rebuild myself if I had an engine crane, or a workshop/ indoor area to rebuild an engine, or a hoist, or even a local machine shop that could help point me in the right direction. Bearing in mind this car will last me the next 8 or 9 years of my life, so I'd rather have it done right

If anyone knows any good machine shops near Lansing, MI, I'd gladly check them out. But all I've found so far is muscle car workshops, and those guys are far from helpful or pleasant to deal with.

 

[doubleclutch]

I bought the car in its current condition. The previous owner drove it completely untuned for 5,500 miles. So that engine has been long since buggered. But I would absolutely do the rebuild myself if I had an engine crane, or a workshop/ indoor area to rebuild an engine, or a hoist, or even a local machine shop that could help point me in the right direction. Bearing in mind this car will last me the next 8 or 9 years of my life, so I'd rather have it done right

If anyone knows any good machine shops near Lansing, MI, I'd gladly check them out. But all I've found so far is muscle car workshops, and those guys are far from helpful or pleasant to deal with.

No point on spending 3.5k if you don't pick up a fuel pump rewire, injectors, and dsmlink at a minimum. I can guarantee that at 18 psi you are running very lean.

Maybe pick up a running engine and do the swap and take the time to rebuild yours? Cranes are rentable or ~200$ at Harbor Freight, and I really doubt boostin is going to pull the engine for you, so a hoist is a problem anyways. But hey, it is your money.

 

[raptoranderson]

No point on spending 3.5k if you don't pick up a fuel pump rewire, injectors, and dsmlink at a minimum. I can guarantee that at 18 psi you are running very lean.

Maybe pick up a running engine and do the swap and take the time to rebuild yours? Cranes are rentable or ~200$ at Harbor Freight, and I really doubt boostin is going to pull the engine for you, so a hoist is a problem anyways. But hey, it is your money.

I was going to wait until I had confirmed with Boostin Performance that they could do a rebuild before I went out and bought injectors, a fuel pump and an afpr. But I already have a wideband and a boost controller.

In all honesty though, how possible do you think it would be to rebuild an engine that would run 300-350hp without a shop? I suppose I could just as easily buy an engine (like you said), strip it down to bare bones and clean/ inspect what I've got. I mean fundamentally it's not that difficult, is it? It's just making sure you do it right and also do it accurately with the correct torque on each bolt and correct clearances and spacings in all of the moving parts.

 

[AdR]

A stock engine can run 300-350whp without a hiccup and more so with water/meth or e85 help. Those heavy hitter builds are for way past that power level threshold. It all depends on your future plans and your discipline with the "1 more psi" bug... If you find yourself threading the MBC's knob telling yourself it's only 1 more psi periodically, you better get an engine that can handle it.

 

[gsxeclipse102]

If you do a 6 bolt swap 350 hp is easily do-able stock. Id find a full 6 bolt swap and just replace the essentials( oil pump , bs delete,water pump, t belt, all pulleys and belt tensioner). Also replace all the gaskets (headgasket,thermostat,reseal oil pan,etc). Do it right the first time and itll last.

 

[raptoranderson]

I've found a complete 6-bolt engine online for $2.5k and I'm considering getting it now so I can start stripping it and getting it ready for an engine swap.

I think some things that are a given are (let me know if I've missed anything):
-An MLS head gasket
-ARP head studs
-New thermostat, water pump, oil pump, idlers, tensioners and corresponding belts
-Full timing kit
-New gaskets all around

And then some mods to support 300-350hp:
-850cc fuel injectors
-255lph fuel pump
-AEM afpr

But are things such as forged internals (con rods, crankshaft, pistons) overkill for what I am trying to achieve? Or are they more of a safety measure and a means of planning ahead so I don't have to do the work again later?

 

[gsxeclipse102]

Forged internals are overkill for under 400hp( with a good tune/no knock). Only thing id change is the mls gasket to composite. Composite is easier to seal and will pop before your pistons if you go lean and knock.

 

[raptoranderson]

Forged internals are overkill for under 400hp( with a good tune/no knock). Only thing id change is the mls gasket to composite. Composite is easier to seal and will pop before your pistons if you go lean and knock.

So I suppose that it's more of a case of personal preference and what my goals are? I've found a few good threads on how to prep a 6 bolt engine and then do an engine swap into a 2G that was previously a 7-bolt, so I suppose my next task is finding a 6 bolt engine.

Is there anything immediately wrong with getting an engine from a website like this:

http://www.powertrainproducts.net/M...AfaIe1iaaBDMV1XnVWrr0jvR6CY0r4BCLZBoCB1Pw_wcB

Or would that work as a good base to build upon?

I suppose I won't know what else I'll need (new clutch, flywheel, etc) until I actually pull my old engine apart and see what condition most of the parts are in.

I'm seriously considering just putting the forged internals into the engine while I have it out of the car. I plan on having the car just touching 400hp so I suppose it might be better that I do those sorts of mods now and play it safe rather than wait until later.

 

[EvilGST]

Forged internals are overkill for under 400hp( with a good tune/no knock). Only thing id change is the mls gasket to composite. Composite is easier to seal and will pop before your pistons if you go lean and knock.

Totally agree with running a composite headgasket. I think of a headgasket as a fuse.

 

[raptoranderson]

Totally agree with running a composite headgasket. I think of a headgasket as a fuse.

So composite as opposed to MLS? Got it I've heard a lot of DSM-ers mention Cometic head gaskets as being the way to go, so I'll stick with one of those unless instructed otherwise.

Isn't a good head gasket especially important because the head lifts off the block when under high boost pressure? Or is that what the ARP head studs are there to prevent?

 

[Dsmkauai]

Oem composite and Arp's all the way for me . I've had both my 7bolt and 6 bolt over 300 and 20-22psi with not a Single issue. You could also check out map performance or Jackson auto for short blocks. I would make sure the machine work is done by a shop that knows the 4g63 good.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Just be honest with yourself on how much power you want to make. DSMs are super cheap so you may be able to find a DSM with a good engine for much less than it would cost to fully build an engine. People are always selling stuff on the cheap.

 

[gsxeclipse102]

Your not gonna lift the head with 400 hp unless you start detonating really bad. If you got forged internals you can use them or sell them and use the money for other things.

 

[chrysler kid]

Just be honest with yourself on how much power you want to make. DSMs are super cheap so you may be able to find a DSM with a good engine for much less than it would cost to fully build an engine. People are always selling stuff on the cheap.

Ditto. Sell the car as a project and move on. Unless it's the exact chassis you want I would move on to a better one

 

[raptoranderson]

Ditto. Sell the car as a project and move on. Unless it's the exact chassis you want I would move on to a better one

A GS-T is exactly what I'm looking for and for what my goals are for the car which is around 350hp I think that what I've got is perfect. The way I see it an engine rebuild is inevitable and the amount of time I plan to spend owning this car (roughly 7 or 8 years) makes it seem to me that the work is worthwhile. I never said it was going to be cheap to achieve that goal, however ...

But I also want this to be a learning experience that can also be done properly, though maybe those two things don't always align my first car was an NA 1.0L FWD hatchback and to me a 2.0L turbo FWD car is the perfect next step. It is also a car that I want to build cleanly and correctly so it actually looks decent

 

[chrysler kid]

A GS-T is exactly what I'm looking for and for what my goals are for the car which is around 350hp I think that what I've got is perfect. The way I see it an engine rebuild is inevitable and the amount of time I plan to spend owning this car (roughly 7 or 8 years) makes it seem to me that the work is worthwhile. I never said it was going to be cheap to achieve that goal, however ...

But I also want this to be a learning experience that can also be done properly, though maybe those two things don't always align my first car was an NA 1.0L FWD hatchback and to me a 2.0L turbo FWD car is the perfect next step. It is also a car that I want to build cleanly and correctly so it actually looks decent

Whatever floats your boat. I'm talking about the entire vehicle, not the aspect of the build.

Unless the interior and body are immaculate I would just get a different shell

 

[raptoranderson]

Unless the interior and body are immaculate I would just get a different shell

This car is absolute filth when it comes to the interior and body; rust spots everywhere, interior looks like a smoker threw up all over the carpets, the trunk has a football-sized rust hole in it ... I half wonder the same thing i.e. getting a new shell. Is there region-specific DSM selling on DSM tuners? Or do I have to manually go through each ad and see if it's somewhere in the Mid-West?

 

[doubleclutch]

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/cto/5890284017.html

https://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/5907963081.html

if you are dropping in a 2.5k motor, and still need link ($400), Injectors ($150), Fuel pump and rewire ($100), AFPR ($150). You might be able to talk down the first guy to just a little bit more then that, upgrade to a GSX, and have something that looks fairly well taken care of.

Second post, welll... he might be a little high on .... the price yeah, the price

 

[gsxeclipse102]

If the body is that bad its not worth it. The rule with rust is you only see half of it. I say cut your losses and find a new car/shell. Maybe a 2g with a "correct" 6 bolt swap.

 

[raptoranderson]

You might be able to talk down the first guy to just a little bit more then that, upgrade to a GSX, and have something that looks fairly well taken care of.

Fantastic, thanks a million for the help! how much would you realistically pay for something that is pretty much going to be used as a shell? I suppose I could easily part-out the engine and accessories I don't need and make some of the money back ....

 

[Geeb]

Damn..

 

[Vegas Smith]

Dude, 2gs are always for sale and especially GSTs. I would just buy a new one and mix the best parts.