Can't get transmission out

[Jafro]

I need a trick from a guru.

BACKGROUND: I've done this job on this car (95 GSX 5-spd) 4 different times. It's never given me any trouble until today. Was having clutch problems and the hydraulics are fine, so I'm pulling the trans to find out what's going on. Got everything disconnected, all the bell housing bolts out, transfer case, axles, linkage, slave, mounts, flywheel cover, harnesses, crossmember...

RIGHT NOW: Can't get the trans to separate from the engine. Tried a small pry bar (because I didn't want to gouge the bell housing). Tried raising and lowering a jack on the passenger side of the transmission while prying... I can wobble it a bit, it's loose, but can't get it to pull away on either side. When I pull the pry bar out, it clamps back shut again.

WILL THIS WORK?...

Bolt the slave cylinder back up. Push the clutch pedal in. Use the hydraulic force to push the transmission free via. the throwout bearing?

Is that...
A) a standard trick-of-the-trade and highly-effective, or
B) likely to do nothing, or
C) will it cause the slave to pop apart splattering my engine bay with brake fluid while launching the transmission off the jack and 2 feet down onto a concrete floor?

I thought of it and googled it. Found 3 total threads that mention it, and nobody tried it or reported back afterwards. I don't remember this part ever being difficult. Is there another trick anyone here relies on to get these separated when you're not using lifts and transmission jacks?

 

[my dreamt dsm]

I think you've done a lot of tranny work before and know what your doing but did you remember to get the bolt behind the starter?

 

[rstchris]

That sneaky little bolt. I have had issues like this before and thought about doing the same thing. Triple check for one last bolt and the inspection cover on the bottom then pry evenly on two sides. If you pry on one side only you might bend the clutch plate.

 

[Jafro]

About that... I found that in my searching, and I don't know if that's a 1g thing or a FWD thing, but there are only 2 bolt holes for the starter, 2 bolts on the top, and 2 bolts on the front. I can see the engine plate where the starter goes through, and there's clearly no hole to receive a bolt.

There is no bolt behind the starter on my car. Very happy to take pictures and post them. Nevermind. I just did. If you're talking about the threaded flange thing on the back above the transfer case where the alignment dowel goes. In the 1st pic... the threaded flange on the right doesn't get a bolt. The transmission is not threaded and the hole doesn't go all the way through to be able to receive a bolt.

Anyone wish to clarify where the "hidden bolt" goes? I've seen the M8x60. If I'm wrong about this, I want to be corrected.

 

[doubleclutch99]

The bolt hole you would be looking for is in the first pic on the far right middle. it threads into the transmission from the engine side and is a smaller bolt than the rest of the trans bolts. that is the fourth bolt that holds the engine and trans together.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Also if you lay under the car and look up at the tranny on the radiator side there is a very small bolt (M8 like you mentioned) just want to make sure you took that one out??? Hope you figure this out.

 

[m0nkey1]

i pulled mine a month or so ago but i was pulling the motor as well. i couldnt get the tranny to come off either so we left it on pulled the motor out a little sideways and i had to acually tug and pull hard and i mean hard to get the tranny to pop off. do you have the wheel, rotor and d.s out? then you could rotate the motor a little by removing the front and rear motor mounts and the frame under the tranny and tug and twist.

 

[Jafro]

The bolt hole you would be looking for is in the first pic on the far right middle. it threads into the transmission from the engine side and is a smaller bolt than the rest of the trans bolts. that is the fourth bolt that holds the engine and trans together.

Heheh. You mean the one I was ranting and complaining about. The M10 threads threw me off, but I'm a jackass for not realizing there are M8 threads 2 inches past the dowel pin and not figuring out the M10 threads are for bolting it to an engine stand. The hole has 3 purposes. Busy hole.

I just ran a grade 8.8 M8x60 in it and feel like a moe-ron. You can tell in the pic with the 35,000 mile old powdercoating that there's never been a bolt on it since it was coated. I did all the transmission jobs on this thing, and I've never known it was supposed to be there. The CAPS pic is really ambiguous. A lot of stuff in there is, though. I think that missing M8 bolt has a lot to do with why the other 2 vibrated out.

Also if you lay under the car and look up at the tranny on the radiator side there is a very small bolt (M8 like you mentioned) just want to make sure you took that one out??? Hope you figure this out.

Actually there's 2 M6 holes for the clutch cover plate. Are those the ones you're referring to?

i pulled mine a month or so ago but i was pulling the motor as well. i couldnt get the tranny to come off either so we left it on pulled the motor out a little sideways and i had to acually tug and pull hard and i mean hard to get the tranny to pop off. do you have the wheel, rotor and d.s out? then you could rotate the motor a little by removing the front and rear motor mounts and the frame under the tranny and tug and twist.

At this stage of the game, there's nothing at all bolting them together, mine's stuck on the input shaft and I bet it's a fragged clutch disc.

 

[crash89]

Did you take the driver side drive shaft out? The boot on the axle may be holding the trans in its place. Make sure both axles are out.

 

[Tanro]

I rofled at the pic... +rep.

 

[Jafro]

Yeah, they're out. Everything's out. With the bolt stuff cleared up at least it will go back together right. But it's confirmed it's stuck on the shaft and I'm going back out to mess with it shortly.

Thanks to everyone for your input. I don't post here often, but I know where to go when I have a problem. Whether or not you realize it, you've helped create an offering to the DSM gods of speed. 1080HD transmission removal and clutch video-FAQs on the way. I'm not doing it with lifts, transmission jacks and sissy tools, I'm roughing it on a cold concrete floor with chinese crap just like you.

 

[Jafro]

Okay, a week later, I've made a tool that lets me remove the clutch bolts through the clutch fork hole. Just as I suspected, fragged the clutch disc. Splines have spun and fused to the input shaft. transmission and clutch are younger than an oil change.

I might take it to a machine shop to get them separated because I'll probably destroy it... but does anybody have an idea how I might be able to get this ####ing thing off? It's not often I use language like that, but this is tranny #4.

 

[doubleclutch99]

Im not saying it is but the last car i had tranny probs like you have . ended up having crank walk bad enough that we couldn't keep a trans or clutch in it. just a thought.

 

[Jafro]

I can imagine that crankwalk can cause lots of problems with clutches... but that's not my problem. I have one of the bulletproof numbers-matching (to the car's VIN) 7-bolts that went 128,000 miles on stock internals (and boost if that matters) and came apart perfectly with no wear on any internal bearings and the crosshatches still in the bores. The crank was in perfect condition. I literally could have re-used my bearings.

It was reassembled with .0019" oil clearance on the mains and .0025 on the rods using Calico coated bearings and still has zero endplay on the crank 30,000 miles later. At least I tried to wiggle it last night and could get nothing. The crankcase isn't dry which could be dampening it, but on a crankwalk car you can at least get a "thump" out of the flywheel. I can't. I didn't have bad compression or the need to rebuild it, I just wanted a 9:1 set of JE's and Eagle Rods with ARPs in it.

Here's where I whine a little bit...

Transmission-wise, I've broken the 1/2 fork twice, silently blown a chunk of 4th gear off which exited the case with my gear oil, and now I've spun-welded a clutch disc to the input shaft. They're very different failures.

I'm not going to negate the human factor in this. This car is driven only at the track or on weekends to break the monotony of the automatic V6 commuter-truck. It's rarely babied, but I don't flog the crap out of it. For instance... I do have NLTS enabled on my ECU and while I believe it could be a factor, it still shouldn't have failed like this. That's set for straight-line WOT acceleration. I don't hit my rev limit cruising around town, but I can't say I haven't. The clutch is supposed to be able to hold 406'lbs of torque according to ACT, so it's my opinion that rating should apply to the splines as well. My car makes 357awhp, and only 324 torque. My last ACT clutch lasted through 3 transmissions and hundreds of drag passes, so this time around either the input shaft was defective, or the clutch disc was. I tend to believe it was the clutch disc because it's stripped much worse than the input shaft. The two are still fused together, but I can still see that much.

 

[m0nkey1]

I've had tranny problems but you sir have serious tranny issues. Did you happen to take pics of any of it?

 

[Jafro]

I've got better than that. 1080HD video coming Friday of the whole removal process and how to get a transmission off the car if you end up with the same failure as I did. You can imagine it's not easy removing the clutch prior to removing the transmission since it's inside the bell housing.

I haven't managed to get this thing to budge even on the garage floor. It's going to need a new input shaft, and I'm probably taking it to a machine shop to let them separate it. Or maybe I'll just have them leave them fused together. Perhaps send it to ACT for warranty replacement? I dunno.

Nobody I've told about this seems to want to believe this happened. People tweaking DSMs for 18 years claiming they've never seen this. Machine shops saying "You need to be making close to 4-digits on the dyno before running into crap like that". I did it. How bad-ass is that?

 

[Jafro]

OK. Didn't take it to a machine shop. I couldn't let them have the satisfaction of cutting a $500 clutch off of a $2800 transmission that I paid for. It was my damn money. Let me do it.

So here's what you do if you shred the splines of your clutch disc around the input shaft.

YouTube - Transmission & Clutch Part 2

What's really freakin' amazing is my input shaft survived this. If it winds up spinning another disc, fine I'll replace it. Here are some close-ups. LCD is busted on the back of my camera and these are the best 2 pics of over 20 attempts. I'm sick of ufkqing with it so beyond the video, this is all you get.

 

[Grescht]

How did that input shaft survive..... insanity. Good thing is you saved some money, and gave stuart one less thing to bi*** about. Lol. Slap a street disc on there and call it a day. You aughta get that beautiful flywheel that manley makes for 7 bolt cars. Lol