Buying a 1G, how much power should I expect?

[johnboy1065]

hey ya'll!,

I'm going next week to buy a 1g talon and I was just wondering what kind of horsepower numbers I should expect with the mods he listed. (assuming it's a good running engine)

I know this is VERY broad but I just want a round'about guesstimate.

here is how the owner has described the car:

"91 eagle talon clean body with alot of mods including shep tranny, act2600 clutch, 4 bolt rear, 272 cams, k&n intake, apexi, afc, 20g turbo, big bushur intercooler, 3 in turbo back exhaust, 550 injectors and much more"

Now, I'm assuming that he has a walbro 255LPH fuel pump but of course I'm not for sure....

From what I've read, It's best to have somewhere in the middle to upper 600's CC's (660's, 680's) of injector for the 20G turbo. Is that correct?

Also, I asked about the cams and he said he didnt know what brand of 272's they were because the previous owner installed them.

but what I'm asking is:

If I were to get the correct size injectors (if they are incorrect right now) and also assuming this is just the most common version of a 20G, and PROBABLY HKS 272 Cams about what kinda numbers could I expect?

Thanks,
john

 

[juanpac0]

Ballpark about 300whp probably @ the low 20's psi wise, but there's only one way to find out.

With 550's and no afpr you won't be able to get the most out of that turbo, but pushing fuel pressure up to increase injector flow isn't the best for the injectors anyway.

 

[Fridayda13th]

With those 550's I would say around 300 to 350. Which is good for a starter car. How much you paying for it.

 

[johnboy1065]

Ballpark about 300whp probably @ the low 20's psi wise, but there's only one way to find out.

With 550's and no afpr you won't be able to get the most out of that turbo, but pushing fuel pressure up to increase injector flow isn't the best for the injectors anyway.

what if I were to upgrade injectors to 650's or so??? Install ARP headstuds(if not already) and turn up the boost to the max the most common 20g can push and still be efficient?

 

[johnboy1065]

With those 550's I would say around 300 to 350. Which is good for a starter car. How much you paying for it.

it's actually a killer deal, 1300. Headgasket is blown and the guy doesnt feel like getting it fixed. I told him I wouldnt mind fixing it if he sells it cheap (I've built my entire evo myself so I'm thinking installing a head gasket wouldnt be that much different)

BUT dont get me wrong, I'm a DSM newbie.

 

[johnboy1065]

anybody know the answer to the question on post number 4?


thanks for all of ya'lls input,

John

 

[the_mork]

I think those numbers are high. Mind you that 550cc isn't a whole lot of injector. 650s would be pushing the limits of an AFC especially on a 1g where you will be pushed well into the realm of heavy knocking because the ecu will see so little airflow.

Start by switching to a different tuning solution, and eprom ecu for a 1g isn't hard to get and then you can go with Jackal which is a SD system where you burn your own chips or use an emulator or dsmlink which is the all-purpose standard badass tuning solution for 1gs.

Keep in mind that a lot of what you know about fueling for an evo is wrong on a DSM because they have a different base fuel pressure. I don't remember off the top of my head what a manual 1g runs but a 2g is at 42.5psi and a 1g auto is at 47 IIRC.

 

[johnboy1065]

I think those numbers are high. Mind you that 550cc isn't a whole lot of injector. 650s would be pushing the limits of an AFC especially on a 1g where you will be pushed well into the realm of heavy knocking because the ecu will see so little airflow.

Start by switching to a different tuning solution, and eprom ecu for a 1g isn't hard to get and then you can go with Jackal which is a SD system where you burn your own chips or use an emulator or dsmlink which is the all-purpose standard badass tuning solution for 1gs.

Keep in mind that a lot of what you know about fueling for an evo is wrong on a DSM because they have a different base fuel pressure. I don't remember off the top of my head what a manual 1g runs but a 2g is at 42.5psi and a 1g auto is at 47 IIRC.

I do eventually want to get rid of the AFC. But the main reason I want to get this car is to learn how to tune. I figured I'd start off small and keep the AFC and get the fueling perfect. THEN upgrade to the DSMlink and do fuel and timing.

Since I'm new to tuning I want to take it slow and just do a little at a time. Start off small will just adjusting fuel, and THEN move to something that messes with fuel AND timing.

 

[lowexpectations]

Ballpark about 300whp probably @ the low 20's psi wise, but there's only one way to find out.

With 550's and no afpr you won't be able to get the most out of that turbo, but pushing fuel pressure up to increase injector flow isn't the best for the injectors anyway.

The part about increasing pressure hurting the injectors in not correct. Injectors are tested for flow at a higher pressure than a 1g manual runs. In all acutality 550's flow less than that due to running lower fuel pressure. IIRC a 1g manual runs 37psi base fuel pressure and injectors are flow tested at 43.5 psi.

The problem you are most likely going to run into is fuel cut due to maxing out the stock maf and that will be just about the 300 mark.

 

[u2slow]

I`ve had a 20g for years. Tuned with a VPC. I started out with 550 injectors never had a problem....ran a best time of 11.75.

A few uears later I put in HKS 272s and switched to 660 injectors. Now I have to keep the GCC/VPC controls way to the lean side.

My car actually ran better with the 550s.

 

[the_mork]

I do eventually want to get rid of the AFC. But the main reason I want to get this car is to learn how to tune. I figured I'd start off small and keep the AFC and get the fueling perfect. THEN upgrade to the DSMlink and do fuel and timing.

Since I'm new to tuning I want to take it slow and just do a little at a time. Start off small will just adjusting fuel, and THEN move to something that messes with fuel AND timing.

Why not tune your evo? You have amazing tuning abilities built in if you buy a Tactrix 1.3 cable and Evoscan.

 

[canada4g63]

Do a compression test 1300bux seem way cheap for the car as long as it's clean

 

[LandoAWD]

The bench racing will stop now. We don't allow it.

 

[Stanley Dist]

In my opinion, you should expect the car to perform no where near its potential once you get it running because people drive them into the ground and don't keep up on them. You usually don't buy one that's running great, because people don't sell them when they're running well. They sell them when they're running like shit and fed up with the problems.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Here's a nifty chart to help you select your injector size. In a perfect world, with 80% IDC, and 43.5psi base fuel pressure, the 550cc injectors should give you enough fuel for 266 horsepower. Of course there are tons of factors that could prevent that from happening, such as knock, and all the various causes of knock, but 550s aren't that big, and niether is 266HP, so that should be a fairly easy goal.

Basically what that means is, just adding bigger injectors won't yield the power. In other words, putting 1858cc injectors won't suddenly give you 900HP.

RC Fuel Injection

I hope that's not considered "bench racing", I was just trying to add some helpful information.

 

[u2slow]

After searching for a "bench racing" definition, it looks to me like this whole thread is bench racing from post #1 on down.

 

[johnboy1065]

Why not tune your evo? You have amazing tuning abilities built in if you buy a Tactrix 1.3 cable and Evoscan.

because it's using the AEM EMS. From looking at it it seems quite a big more complicated to tune....

 

[johnboy1065]

this thread is not bench racing. I'm just asking how much power could be expected if this setup was maximized using the right injectors.

I know just adding injectors doesnt suddenly give me 900 hp, duh . But on the other hand if you had a 42r and 450cc injectors you woul "suddenly" only have 220 hp .

So I'm asking about if the right injectors and the right tuning were in the car whats the general HP range (and of course also fixing any general problems with the car).

I did post in the newbie section did I not? I think this is an ok question for this section...

 

[LandoAWD]

this thread is not bench racing.

I'm just asking how much power could be expected if this setup was maximized using the right injectors.

It's one or the other.

You've been presented with the appropriate data, and I'm not going to sit here and debate what is or isn't bench racing. This is not a democracy, and I have been enforcing SIMPLE rules like this for years. The ONLY reason this was still open was thanks to Colt's post up there, but it's done now.

You might make 300, you might make less than stock. Too many variables, thus the rule.