1G Building a Shortblock 101

[SasaniFab]

So tmrw my buddy is coming over and We are going to assemble his engine. Everything came back from the machine shop today. The build consists of a .020 over 6 bolt block. Wiseco Hd pistons, oem compression, manley turbo tuff rods with king bearings and oem crank with arp main bolts. I try to shoot for the same clearances on all my setups. I like a minimum of .0045 ptw clearance. My ring gaps have always been .022 top .024 bottom. The machine shop put the valves back in despite asking otherwise so i need to break the head down AGAIN and reinstall new valve seals and springs. Work starts tmrw morning boys. Ill keep updating until my post gets locked

 

[turbotalon1g]

Have you built a lot of motors? Thanks for sharing.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I wish someone would make a sticky of short block (101) and cylinder head (101) and have all the correct bolt sizes / torque values / etc listed. Along with, a complete, parts list. People don't understand how many parts and bolts there literally are doing work like that. They think, block / pistons / rods / crank and bam! blocks done... when really there is so much more. Just front case alone with a complete BSE setup takes some time. Castle plug and o ring, both oil pump gears and bolts, BSE spacer if you do it correctly, crank bolt, dampr and bolts, oil pick up / strainer and bolts, BS bearings spun to block off the holes, etc. It takes a good amount of time and patience to assemble a 4g.. Ring gaps your shooting for seem good for 25 - 35psi (under 700whp). Piston to wall sounds like a Wiseco 2816 forging. Guessing rod and main bearing clearances are in the .024 - .028" range?

Do you have the Euroexports valve spring tool? Makes doing the head work cake!

 

[SasaniFab]

Do you have the Euroexports valve spring tool? Makes doing the head work cake!

Lol.... funny you said that. Mine has so much use it has time certs in it

All of my builds are generally same setups. As for the specs... the block came back a bit tighter at 3.1-3.4 ptw clearance give or take. Im still happy with that. If I build a motor for someone I wont do it unless all of the bolts are replaced. All of these engines are 100k plus block mind you so the blocks are hideous. Building an engine is not rocket science.... we hit a snag unfortunately map performance sent 7 bolt rods so I had to stop. I didnt realize until I saw the cap diameter.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

If the machine shop couldn't get something as simple as PTW clearance correct (thought earlier you said you requested .0045"), I doubt the bearing clearances are going to be right.. sounds like your machinist needs replaced.

 

[EVLGSX]

I use the Euroexports valve spring compressor too.......sweet little setup for the $.........can get 4 done w/o moving it and can service head installed if need be........word up

 

[donniekak]

I use the Euroexports valve spring compressor too.......sweet little setup for the $.........can get 4 done w/o moving it and can service head installed if need be........word up

After you use an actual cylinder head work station on an air table you’ll never want to use any of the other tools.

The only head tool I use is a blue point ga317 to do valve seals or springs in the car.

 

[SasaniFab]

If the machine shop couldn't get something as simple as PTW clearance correct (thought earlier you said you requested .0045"), I doubt the bearing clearances are going to be right.. sounds like your machinist needs replaced.

It wasnt my machinist, i didnt speak with them, that is just what I shoot for. The block went through Raif at RRT. If i really want to I could finish hone the block to whatever I want.... But for what My buddies running this is plenty.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

Ahh ok. I was like man something is definitely not right here. If your giving them numbers and they are that far off! .003" isn't terribly tight, but I wouldn't be taking that thing over 9K or running a lot of boost though it often.. Seems like you got things under control!

 

[EVLGSX]

for 50 bucks, I will

After you use an actual cylinder head work station on an air table you’ll never want to use any of the other tools.

The only head tool I use is a blue point ga317 to do valve seals or springs in the car.

Having a setup like that would be great if I was doing it constantly, but for 50 bucks and to support my hobby, and sometimes friends stuff, Im happy with the little aluminum block for now.

 

[tharrison365]

W

 

[SasaniFab]

the story is..... manley put 7 bolt rods in the 6 bolt box. So map performance didnt make a mistake. Ive never seen 7 bolt rods, i cant believe how much smaller the cap thickness is. The 6 bolts have a more manley design imp . The crank is installed but I may pull it back out to hone the bores a bit more. Im back at it on wed. More to come boys

 

[bastarddsm]

.003 is too tight imho. That motor has a good chance of scoring pistons. Also you need a cleaner area to assemble engines.

 

[SasaniFab]

.003 is too tight imho. That motor has a good chance of scoring pistons. Also you need a cleaner area to assemble engines.

Ive had varying opinions on ptw clearance using wiseco forgings. Either way, when I get back at it on wed the block will be .0045 like the rest of my engines. I have a torque plate and all the tools I need. A cleaner place.... one day. If I had the option Id assemble everything in my basement. The garage is my only option currently but i assure you every part is sportless. Every motor ive built gets soaked with mineral spirits and all the oil passages are blown through.

 

[bastarddsm]

Do you have a rigid hone? A good sunnen bore gauge and the setting fixture? It will be very difficult to get it right with out those. A three shoe flex hone, is not a rigid hone.

Mineral spirits will cut the oil, but it really needs washed in hot soapy water. The soap helps lift the dirt and contaminants off the surface to be rinsed away. Garage building is fine, but it needs to be clean, and the doors shut. I usually clean for a day before assembling an engine, blow it all down, wash the floor, clean tools, wipe down benches, ect. Basically cleaner than if I was going to be painting. It only takes a little bit of stray dirt to ruin things.

 

[SasaniFab]

The last motor I did had a .020 overbore The block came back a tiny bit tighter. We are talking .0038 , I wanted .0045. I used an old headgasket and a torque plate with a 3 shoe hone. I kept the rotations equal on all 4 cylinders. Its not the best way to do it... but it worked for me.

 

[donniekak]

If you don’t want to pony up for an an-112 the lisle rigid hones work, but the stone options are limited. You’ll need a large 3/4” drive drill for either. I’d also get the hang of it on a junk block. With a good setup you’ll need a way to bolt the block down as well. A rigid hone at full tension will spin a block on the floor.

A spring hone will follow any irregularities and can wave the surface. With a rigid hone you can feel a spot that’s .0002” tight and correct it.

Do you have a rigid hone? A good sunnen bore gauge and the setting fixture? It will be very difficult to get it right with out those. A three shoe flex hone, is not a rigid hone.

Mineral spirits will cut the oil, but it really needs washed in hot soapy water. The soap helps lift the dirt and contaminants off the surface to be rinsed away. Garage building is fine, but it needs to be clean, and the doors shut. I usually clean for a day before assembling an engine, blow it all down, wash the floor, clean tools, wipe down benches, ect. Basically cleaner than if I was going to be painting. It only takes a little bit of stray dirt to ruin things.

After being jet washed twice all my parts get finished washed in a parts washer with new fluid. I use simple green, distilled water, and tsp heated to around 120-140* The hot soap works amazing.

I developed a cleanliness paranoia in Arizona where dust was everywhere.

 

[SasaniFab]

If you don’t want to pony up for an an-112 the lisle rigid hones work, but the stone options are limited. You’ll need a large 3/4” drive drill for either. I’d also get the hang of it on a junk block. With a good setup you’ll need a way to bolt the block down as well. A rigid hone at full tension will spin a block on the floor.

A spring hone will follow any irregularities and can wave the surface. With a rigid hone you can feel a spot that’s .0002” tight and correct it.

That what I have, the lisle.... its a nice little piece. I also purchased a Large drill drill for it and yes I practiced on a junk block before I touched anything.

 

[donniekak]

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That what I have, the lisle.... its a nice little piece. I also purchased a Large drill drill for it and yes I practiced on a junk block before I touched anything.

Not the lisle 3 arms, one of these.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MIrIi58vfP3gIVSQOGCh0y4QVOEAQYAiABEgLXs_D_BwE

 

[SasaniFab]

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Not the lisle 3 arms, one of these.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MIrIi58vfP3gIVSQOGCh0y4QVOEAQYAiABEgLXs_D_BwE

That what i got my friend.... really nice piece. I love the adjustability.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Looks good man I got a spare block ill be doing a full forged setup, not sure what pistons, rod set up, may just go big or go home kinda thing since im there.

 

[SasaniFab]

Looks good man I got a spare block ill be doing a full forged setup, not sure what pistons, rod set up, may just go big or go home kinda thing since im there.

Never go home .... always go big. Youll regret it if you dont

 

[motomattx]

I would be leary of the Summit cheap hone after seeing this rating:


Stones not parallel
LIL-15000
Cheap is cheap ! Take a caliper set and measured .025 to .015 thousands difference between the top and bottom of the stones.(several sets) This tool will taper cylinders like a kids ice cream cone and for the life of me I have no idea why they continue to sell this garbage . I called the company and they do not think this is a problem!! They include a paint stick with rough sandpaper to "true" stones...you would be there all year!! A bad joke .

0 of 0 found this review helpful.

 

[SasaniFab]

I would be leary of the Summit cheap hone after seeing this rating:


Stones not parallel
LIL-15000
Cheap is cheap ! Take a caliper set and measured .025 to .015 thousands difference between the top and bottom of the stones.(several sets) This tool will taper cylinders like a kids ice cream cone and for the life of me I have no idea why they continue to sell this garbage . I called the company and they do not think this is a problem!! They include a paint stick with rough sandpaper to "true" stones...you would be there all year!! A bad joke .

0 of 0 found this review helpful.

The hone overall has 4/5 stars, mine were not that bad at all. Like I said, I didn't find any tapering or issues when I checked with my dial bore gauge. Id imagine if the bores are already tapered no amount of honing will fix that. If I notice taper issues the block gets over bored. All of the motors ive built are still running and running well. Im not a master assembler but it isn't rocket science. Guys have spun bearings dropped the pan and thrown in new bearings in and have been fine. These motors are relatively forgiving....if your not a complete idiot.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yeah so this go around I'm gonna do something different.