Brian Crower 280's

[maperformance]

The cams are in our hands! 30 sets of 272's and 30 sets of 280's, if you are on the wait list expect a call today!

 

[vintagemuscle]

Just picked up a set of 280's from MAPerformance. Ordered on the 12th in the afternoon, received them Saturday morning the 14th. Talk about quick shipping!
I'll be installing them this week once I get my head back and can post another idle clip if anyone wants to hear it.
My only concern is if it will be safe to push these past 8500 with manley springs and retainers. Maybe I should of had the springs shimmed?

 

[sbcxtreme]

My only concern is if it will be safe to push these past 8500 with manley springs and retainers. Maybe I should of had the springs shimmed?

I had this exact concern. I was shifting(trying to), @ 8500. As soon as i get my car back together i will be going to 9k. I have heard from a few guys that the manleys are under-rated a little and that i would be safe going to 9k.

Maybe i will let you try first

 

[2gAWDTalon]

Why not get all the specs on the Manleys and call Brian Crower and ask his opinion?
I have the BC single springs and brian told me I am good to rev them to 10K rpms, I am going to test this theroy out.

 

[vintagemuscle]

Why not get all the specs on the Manleys and call Brian Crower and ask his opinion?
I have the BC single springs and brian told me I am good to rev them to 10K rpms, I am going to test this theroy out.

If the BC springs are good to 10k with the 280's I shouldn't have a problem. I think the manley's have slightly more spring pressure than the BC's. I was going to call the machine shop who is o-ringing my head and have them shimmed, but maybe I'll just leave them alone.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

No. Insted od guessing and speculation why dont you just ####ing call Brian and get his opinion?

 

[maperformance]

As a side note, there will be a price increase on BC products effective immediately. We still have 22 sets of 272's and 23 sets of 280's at this UNBEATABLE $304.99 shipped price! When these are gone the price will be over $30 more so get them while you still can for this incredible price!

Chris

 

[my98GST]

So how do you shim valve springs? I have the Crowers in mine as well and I'm going to be running a set of the 280's

 

[vintagemuscle]

So how do you shim valve springs? I have the Crowers in mine as well and I'm going to be running a set of the 280's

You remove the springs and put the correct sized shim/washer on the spring seat, thus increasing spring pressure.
Anyway, I spun my 280's to 8500rpm today with the manley valvetrain without a problem.

 

[dsm-onster]

No. Insted od guessing and speculation why dont you just ####ing call Brian and get his opinion?

I've called manley and they have confirmed that their singles are OK for FP2X grinds. I've revved THAT grind to 8.5K daily for a long time now. They suggested a 0.01" shim, if you're worried. They significantly underrate their seat and lift pressures.

Biran would likely only know the advertized seat and lift rates, which we all have. He would not know what these springs can accomplish in the real world unless he's tested them specifically.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

Put my BC 280 cams in today and...wow. First of all the idle sounds sexy but only after struggling to keep the car running while the engine is cold, it will just die unless you give it some RPM. I had FP2s in my 2.3 stroker which purred like stock at idle and still had pretty good power up top but I wanted more for my 30R so I gave the 280s a try. I figured a 280 on a 2.3 would be like a 272 on a 2.0.

Boy was I wrong. Almost all of the low end grunt that the increase in displacement provided has disappeared with these cams. The car pretty much refuses to move away from a stoplight until you reach 1500 rpm, there is NO power below that. Even after that the car is sluggish until about 3000 off boost. On boost the power delivery is much smoother (read: no hard torque hit) and I didn't even pick up much of any airflow up top.

With the 280s my car refuses to idle until warmed up some, idles like ass all the time (although it sounds pretty sweet) and has NO low end power and not much more top end power if any... Car is decently tuned on DSMlink and has been running flawlessly on the FP2s for months now so it's not a tune/setup issue.

Keep in mind i am NOT putting down these cams for what they are. For someone who's looking for an all-out high RPM drag car (2.0?) these would be great cams. Honestly, keep these off the street. Get the BC 272 or FP2 cam or similar.

For those who will say I'm a sissy and like a nice daily driver setup, keep in mind it's about 100F in the summer where I live, I removed the AC for better cooling, I have 800lb and 500 lb springrates F/R (read: a pebble breaks your back) , Fidanza FW with 6 puck clutch and not much of an interior at all. Even with all that I still can't deal with the BC 280s on the street.

I'm sad to say that I'm gonna be going back to my beloved FP2 cams soon.


PS: SOON I'll be posting back to back comparison DSMlink logs of the FP2 cams vs BC280 cams with no other variables changed. (same tune/boost etc, same weather same location)

 

[JWoodley]

I'm very interesting in seeing the comparison. I've got the 272s and I love them.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

PS: SOON I'll be posting back to back comparison DSMlink logs of the FP2 cams vs BC280 cams with no other variables changed. (same tune/boost etc, same weather same location)

Wow please do, I'd love to see the logs. I will be building a 2.0 8.5k revving motor this winter and was originally going to be getting 280s, but if they are that unstreetable, I will stick with my fp2's.

 

[wortdog]

The stock 1G intake manifold won't really work well above 6.5k rpm and is probably what is holding you back on the top end power.

 

[dsm-onster]

I was going to say the exact same thing . If you can budget a SMIM, give a good one a try and see if these cams don't wake up for you by 4500-5000 rpms. I *suspect* that you would get much better airflow numbers at that point vs. fp2s.

Needless to say, you're showing a classic example that cams really do determine the nature of an engine.

 

[sbcxtreme]

I have absolutely no problem with my car dying while the engine is still cold(280s).

But i did notice that driving normal sucked compared to my old fp2's. This is on a 2.0. NO low end at all.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

Wow... I just rechecked and saw I had my base timing at 0* with these cams. Oops. Put it to 5 and its better but still just as sluggish down low and I'm getting less airflow up top.... I haven't been able to do a good 280 log at night to compare to the FP2 log, but I will tonight. My meth pump was acting up yesterday so I couldn't do a log. I'm still going back to my FP2 cams, and might be getting some adjustable cam gears to help out. Yeah, I know the stock 1g IM is holding me back...but I figured I'd still pick up a little up top and definitely didn't plan on LOSING top end airflow. I still don't want to make any conclusions on the airflow until I do a pull in the same conditions like I will tonight.

As a side note my car stalled 4 times trying to move the car about 50 ft when it was warming up. When I first started the car, it fired up ok then idled down and died after about 5 seconds of idling. Tried restarting and it wouldn't even START without blipping the gas pedal... Idle is set to 1050 rpm now. I eliminated my FIAV which might be causing some of the problem, BUT my FP2s started and idled like stock when cold and never came close to dying.

 

[whitedawg]

I had the same problem with BC280's and now with 101400's. Cold start idle is non-existant without giving it some gas. Using a Q45 TB as well, just something you have to deal with the large cams and no factory idle controls.

 

[91eagle_tsi_awd]

My car dies when its cold with my 272's, but i think its mainly due to me eliminating the FIAV. I still havent set base timing either.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

wow... I have BC 280's on my 2.0... The idle about the same as friends with HKS272's. They are very streetable IMO.
I dont know why on earth you would try a all top end cam with a stock IM... that makes no sence.

 

[clipise]

i have the 280's w/ the jmf intake manifold on my 2.0 automatic talon. the car starts right up and doesnt die out.

 

[my98GST]

Yeah so I just got my 280's in and I remember that you had to tap the intake cam...Right? Well both of my ends on the intake and exhaust cam are drilled and tapped... I still have the stock cams in right now. Before I go and rip everything out, is the intake cam already tapped for the 97-99 CAS? I don't want to rip everything out and it be the wrong size and the car be down all weekend.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

If the pass. side of the intake cam is already drilled and tapped, you should be good to go. Another way to confirm is to open up the CAS plate (3 bolts) and there should be a 12 or 14mm single bolt inside of it. Take that bolt out (don't worry it won't mess up anything) and make sure it threads into the intake cam.

 

[sbcxtreme]

The idle issure on startup is sounds like the same issure i had with my fp2's. I would have to let it warm up for 5-10 minutes before i could even leave my driveway. I also had idle surge occasionally with those cams, as well as a few others i know locally. Once i put the 280s in, i never had an issue with startup idle, or surging.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Does anyone have a log of these new 280s? I don't need a comparison log, just something to put on the pavement would be nice.