ECMlink Boost Pill too Small?

[doubleclutch]

1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks?
Boost leak tested 5psi above your max boost with no leaks? Yes

2). Verified mechanical timing?
Yes

3). Verified base timing?
Yes

4). Ignition system
COP or Stock Coil: Stock
Wire brand and Age: 2 years NGK
Spark Plug brand, type and Gap: NG BPR6es

5). Motor health (Compression Test)
Cylinder 1:
Cylinder 2:
Cylinder 3:
Cylinder 4:

6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments?
Idle Switch: Yes
Throttle Cable: Yes
TPS: YEs
BISS: YEs

7). Compression ratio: Stock

8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring? : No

9). Any DTC/CEL codes?: No

10). Electrical system
Car off (not running):
Car running:

11). Base fuel pressure and injector values
Base Fuel Pressure: Stock
Injector Size (cc/min): Stock

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor
Sensor Brand: LC-2
Calibration Date: 3/2016

13). Type of fuel
Type: Premium
Percent of Ethanol: up to 10%

14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos? Yes


Hey guys, Trying to dial in my boost using ECMlink and the stock BCS. I have a pill installed (0.030") located in the tube coming off of my j-pipe. It seems at 85% duty cycle for my boost control I am only making about 13lbs of boost. I expect to max out at about 15 lbs at 100%. Is my boost pill too small? If I install a larger one, it would let my boost go higher correct?

I am not really worried about turning it up right now( I'm running out of fuel) but it could be affecting spool times if I the wastegate is opening.

What do you think?

 

[Dsmkauai]

So are you using boost by gear thru link? Also do you have a map sensor?

 

[doubleclutch]

Yes boost through gear
No map but I did the turn on map change the 0% and 100% values, then turn off the map trick.

 

[GST with PSI]

For starters, ECMlink recommends the restrictor be .025", not .030". I'm not sure how much the extra .005" of an inch really matters, but I'm assuming it does since you're having issues.

Second, did you remove the stock restrictor form the BCS, and did you follow this when you set up your system? http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/ecmlink-boost-control-with-stock-boost-control-solenoid-bcs.474792/

Here's how the system works:

Th BCS solenoid basically acts like a valve. This valve controls the amount pressure the wastegate actuator sees. The more the valve opens, the less boost pressure the wastegate actuator sees, which limits how far the wastegate is allowed to open. Simply, when the valve (BCS) opens, boost pressure is redirected away (bled off) from the WG actuator, thereby limiting the WG flapper's ability to open, and increasing boost.

The way the BCS (or the "valve") opens is by cycling on and off rapidly. This is cycling is simply known as the duty cycle. As you increase the duty cycle in the ECMlink application, less pressure is bled off, resulting in the wastegate staying closed and increasing boost. This is exactly how a MBC works, but rather than a set spring pressure determining when the WG opens/closes, you have a computer determining that based on how you've configured to BCS to respond in ECMLink.

The "pill" or restrictor is in place to initially limit the boost pressure the BCS sees. The stock BCS solenoid was never intended to handle 15, 20, or 30 pounds of boost, and if you put it up to the task alone it will fail miserably. The guys at ECMLink have found through testing a .025" restrictor works best, and I can verify that claim with personal experience using this system on many of my own cars. Again, I'm not sure what impact a slightly larger pill would cause, but I'd rather stick with what I know works. I'd recommend you do the same, and get the correct size restrictor.

First, get the right restrictor. Then, post a log of your BCS configurations. I suspect something is probably awry. Also, I need to know what turbo/wastegate you're using, and how the BCS system is currently configured on your car. If it's not a mirror image of the diagram posted in my link, you'll need to make it so.

 

[doubleclutch]

Yes, other than the larger restrictor that is exactly what I did. I was hoping you wuld see the thread because it seems like you have spent quite a bit of time on this sort of issue, so thank you for your help.

Now that I am thinking about it, I realize that the restrictor is in the source line from the turbo, so a smaller restrictor would allow for larger boost numbers as there would be less air that the BCS would have to blow of.

AS my profile states I am running a E316G with the stock wastegate. The wastegate holds 8-9 PSI all day with 0% duty cycles.

My latest log is attached. I started at 50% duty cycle and worked my way up. The last pull ~2 min from log end was with 85% duty cycle.

 

[GST with PSI]

Without being able to see boost in your log (no MAP) it's hard to troubleshoot remotely. It looks like your configs are good, so If I had to guess, I'd say your solenoid isn't working.

You aren't using the boost target table nor do you have a MAP sensor to utilize it, so you can zero that out. Also, you can set your duty cycle to 100% from 2000 to 3500 RPM, as your turbo isn't going to build boost until around then anyways.

Have you verified the solenoid is working? You can do this simply by going into ECMlink, and having a helper manually activate the BCS solenoid. At the same time, you should be under the hood, listening and feeling the BCS clicking. If it doesn't click, its not working. The BCS button is grayed out when boost control is enabled. To manually activate the solenoid, you have to go to the Boost (WGS) tab and uncheck the box that says "enable boost control" then click "copy all to ECU". Once you do that, go back to the BCS tab and it shouldn't be greyed out anymore. Once you verify the BCS is working, reverse this process, or your boost control will be disabled.

Once you verify the solenoid is working, set the entire table to 100% and go make a pull. You should get an immediate boost spike, at which time you A) will know the system is working and B) should quickly let out of the throttle.

This system is super simple, and there are only a few things that can keep it from working. Verify the basics and report back.

 

[doubleclutch]

The solenoid is working. When set to 0% i get 8-9 lbs of boost. When set to 85% I get 13-15 lbs of boost.

I am going to swap out restrictors and see what happens.

 

[GST with PSI]

What do you get at 100%

 

[doubleclutch]

ran out of time. Hopefully this weekend.

 

[Nate355RS]

8-9psi on a 16g makes me think this could be a wastegate problem. The gate should hold more than that by itself. Also, should the pill be between the BCS and the T so it doesn't affect normal wastegate operation? It seems like if the pill is between the boost source and gate, it creates a restriction that should increase boost just by itself, even with the BCS completely closed. Which is another reason I think there might be anice issue with the internal gate.

 

[doubleclutch]

8-9psi on a 16g makes me think this could be a wastegate problem. The gate should hold more than that by itself. Also, should the pill be between the BCS and the T so it doesn't affect normal wastegate operation? It seems like if the pill is between the boost source and gate, it creates a restriction that should increase boost just by itself, even with the BCS completely closed. Which is another reason I think there might be anice issue with the internal gate.

From what I have read 8-9 psi on spring pressure only is fine.

The restrictor is installed per ecmlink instructions. If you were to install it in the bcs side of the t, you would bleed less air from the line resulting in lower boost. I either need to bleed more are, hence increase duty cycle of bcs, or decrease volume coming from the source, hence possibly a smaller restrictor in source line.

I just installed a .025 restrictor I will test it out and report back sometime this weekend.

 

[GST with PSI]

Also, should the pill be between the BCS and the T so it doesn't affect normal wastegate operation? It seems like if the pill is between the boost source and gate, it creates a restriction that should increase boost just by itself, even with the BCS completely closed.

The pill provides a buffer for all of the components after it, meaning both the wastegate actuator and the BCS. This buffer allows the BCS to bleed off pressure without being overrun while simultaneously managing those pressures at the WG actuator. If what you're suggesting were true, you'd just be able to leave the stock restrictor in place, rather than having to remove it from the BCS.

Again, the restrictor is required because the stock BC solenoid isn't designed to handle these higher boost pressures. In contrast, the IR solenoid valve is much more heavy duty and can handle higher pressures without restrictors.

 

[Nate355RS]

The restrictor pill reduces pressure in the wastegate system so there is less pressure gettIng to the wastegate than the engine. So the wastegate will crack at a higher boost pressure with the restrictor than without. That's why I question the 8-9psi wastegate pressure and if the WG is full sealing or has enough preload. But the smaller pill should help either way.

 

[steve]

It sounds like the current restrictor pill opening is too large.

The way this system works is you have an effectively infinite source of pressure (the manifold) feeding into a column of air that is tapped to feed the wastegate. At one end of this column is the restrictor, that limits the rate that the column filled from the pressure source, and at the other end the solenoid draining off pressure.

If the column fills faster than the solenoid can drain it you can't lower the local pressure in the column. That's what would happen if the restrictor is too large or the solenoid air path is too small.

 

[doubleclutch]

Replaced the pill with the 0.025" one and the car builds boost plenty good now. I reduced the duty cycle to 10% and it builds about the same as it did at 85% before. Those ECMlink guys really know what they are doing.

I will say setting my duty cycle too 100% for 2000-3500 is not possible as it builds way too much boost at around 3200 RPM. Seems to be reasonable if I take the 3500 RPM setting down quite a bit.

Thanks for all the help!