Boost creep fixed after a year of trouble

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

i dont understand how people can say having back pressure doesn't cure boost creep, but in my case it did, and i am sooo relieved. After doing everything by the book i still had boost creep, there was nothing more to port and no bigger flapper possible. That is when we started looking at my "custom" made 3" exhaust. The way i had it done was without really any true bends in the exhaust, it basically went straight out the back. I had absolutely no control of my boost from 4 grand up, there was just no stopping it. By not having those bends in my exhaust like any manufactured exhuast, my exhuast was just too free flowing for "my set up." That is when we tried pinching down the downpipe to 2.5" to the flex, helped but didn't cure it. We decided to add a little restriction to the exhuast by putting in a high flow cat and it worked. I have complete control over my boost. It has been over a year now that i have not been able to drive my car to the max and now i can. I can't thank Car Version 2 enough for helping me. My advice is to not be cheap when you do stuff to your car becuase it usually comes back to haunt you.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Glad to hear you've remedied your creeping issue, though am a bit disappointed on how you did it (i.e. adding restrictions to an otherwise free-flowign exhaust).

A better solution (and likely ~the same cost) would have been to pick up a used Tial38mm (can be had for $150 + flanges) and mount off the manifold.

Route the dump back into the downpipe and you've got a quiet, creepless low restriction exhaust.

This is what I'll be doing when I go to a full 3" exhaust later this summer

 

[oldman]

i dont understand how people can say having back pressure doesn't cure boost creep, but in my case it did, and i am sooo relieved. After doing everything by the book i still had boost creep, there was nothing more to port and no bigger flapper possible. That is when we started looking at my "custom" made 3" exhaust. The way i had it done was without really any true bends in the exhaust, it basically went straight out the back. I had absolutely no control of my boost from 4 grand up, there was just no stopping it. By not having those bends in my exhaust like any manufactured exhuast, my exhuast was just too free flowing for "my set up." That is when we tried pinching down the downpipe to 2.5" to the flex, helped but didn't cure it. We decided to add a little restriction to the exhuast by putting in a high flow cat and it worked. I have complete control over my boost. It has been over a year now that i have not been able to drive my car to the max and now i can. I can't thank Car Version 2 enough for helping me. My advice is to not be cheap when you do stuff to your car becuase it usually comes back to haunt you.

I'm sorry but this is not a fix, this is a bandage. I think it's commonly known that you can control creep by adding restiction to your exhaust, the trick is to keep the performance gain and control creep at the same time. Two ways to deal with this issue, external wastegate on manifold (already mentioned by John) or porting. I'm a believer in porting because it's free.

there was nothing more to port

What exactly have you port? Myself and many others have successfully controlled creep through porting. My 16g use to creep to 23+ psi, after properly ported, 14psi to redline in every gear. If porting doesn't work, external on manifold would be the only other way to go, I would never recommend adding restriction to exhaust to control creep.

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

I'm sorry but this is not a fix, this is a bandage. I think it's commonly known that you can control creep by adding restiction to your exhaust, the trick is to keep the performance gain and control creep at the same time. Two ways to deal with this issue, external wastegate on manifold (already mentioned by John) or porting. I'm a believer in porting because it's free.

What exactly have you port? Myself and many others have successfully controlled creep through porting. My 16g use to creep to 23+ psi, after properly ported, 14psi to redline in every gear. If porting doesn't work, external on manifold would be the only other way to go, I would never recommend adding restriction to exhaust to control creep.

yeah, you guys are absolutly right...but i just spent $2,000 on a brand new Evo III fully ported, exhaust manifold ported, o2 housing ported, and 34 mm flapper and installation. If i had the money i would have went that way obviously and will go that way eventually. I am just happy that for now i can get on my car again. I don't feel any power loss, because i have never been able to get on my car. It feels good for now and when i get this all paid for i will have to get a clutch first and then get the external and do that exhaust again. So what i am trying to say is, without spending money on all that stuff for an external wastegate, i have fixed my boost creep. And again, i didn't have just a normal 3" exhaust, with all of the bends, it was straight out absolutely no restriction. It was just too free flowing for not having a external wastegate which i didn't want to spend the money on, at least for right now.

 

[ShapeGSX]

$2000! Just think of all the tools you could have bought with that to do the work yourself.

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

$2000! Just think of all the tools you could have bought with that to do the work yourself.

haha...yes very true, but i am sick of doing things my self and then messing up and having to get it all fixed...plus the time it takes to do all of that crap is almost impossible unless i would work late through the night...$2,000 may seem like a lot but for the time where i wouldnt have to stress about everything and let other people do it all was very well worth it

...and SHAPEGSX, that is probably the craziest set up on a car i have ever seen and to run that fast is insane! Did you do that all on stock injectors?

 

[ShapeGSX]

No, I have 660 injectors.

I have always felt that the only person that really cares whether or not your car actually runs right is you. The garage that does work on your car could care less. I started off years ago not knowing anything about cars. I think my first mod was an air filter and upper IC pipe. I installed those myself. Every once in a while there is a big project that comes along that looks daunting, but you just have to jump in and do it yourself and find out that it really isn't that bad. Now I can say I have changed a clutch, a turbo, a timing belt, and built an engine with my own two hands. And since I did the work myself, and tweak the car all the time, I ended up with a car that runs very well. You just have to jump in. Installing a turbo isn't hard at all.

 

[oldman]

I have always felt that the only person that really cares whether or not your car actually runs right is you.

Couldn't have said it better, even if the shop owns a 9 sec. shop car.

but i just spent $2,000 on a brand new Evo III fully ported, exhaust manifold ported, o2 housing ported, and 34 mm flapper and installation.

This is your problem right here. Most porting job offered by vendors focuses on flow and spool up, they only grind out the step on the inlet, not on boost creep. There are specific areas that needs to be ported to resolve boost creep. Here's is an on going thread of a guy creeping with a ported evo3 w/34mm flapper mod, it shows what areas needs to be ported. Perhaps after reading it you would feel comfortable enough to pull them and port it again yourself properly so you can go back to a full 3" exhaust. Porting is not as difficult as it sounds, once you get started, you'll realize paying for a port job is as ridiculous as paying for an oil change.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I have always felt that the only person that really cares whether or not your car actually runs right is you. The garage that does work on your car could care less.

Last time I took my car to a shop I ended up spending $500+ for a Tbelt change. The car ran like poop for several years afterward before I realized they didn't set the tensioner correctly causing both cams to be off two teeth

Motto.. even the guys with the 8-second Talon care more about the money than you/your car

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

well the o2 housing was ported to the max it possible could be with out going too far and making the metal weak. I did my old turbo myself and it was cool and all, but running into problems and the time issue was just not worth it for me to do it again. The problem with my set up was my 3" exhaust that people would normally buy from like greddy with bends and stuff was completly different. My exhuast, which was custom made by my friends cousin who mainly makes exhaust for domestics, had 1 minor bend and went straight out the back. The cat is only temporary for right now. I understand the porting issue and i know how you guys cant trust anyone else but doing it yourself. But these guys i have been working with are awesome and completly trustworthy. When we thought my set up was going to work, they worked on my car for free until it was fixed, all of the re-porting they did and talking to guys who make the turbo, all of that "time" that should be charged they didn't. The only thing i had to buy was the cat "at-cost" because they kept their word that they would end my boost creep problem and the cat thing was not in the deal. They told me that if i had exhaust that was 3" and followed the stock path I would prob. of had no problem with creep. Since my exhaust is soo free flowing i will eventually save up for an external wastegate and put my 3" all the way through exhaust on. But money doesn't grow from trees.

 

[boostedinaz]

So the shop you trust tells you that your performance exhaust is not restrictive enough?

I hate when my race car is to fast, and my dick is to big, and my GF likes to give BJ's to much. Why not actually fix the problem, instead of letting shops bandaid it with lame theory.

 

[jmadison]

So the shop you trust tells you that your performance exhaust is not restrictive enough?

I hate when my race car is to fast, and my dick is to big, and my GF likes to give BJ's to much. Why not actually fix the problem, instead of letting shops bandaid it with lame theory.

Isn't that the worst

It basically comes down to you spending a few (maybe a lot) of hours searching thru forums, and asking resonable questions: Then going out and putting in the wrench time until you are satisfied. That might be an hour might be a year, but atleast you know exactly what was done to your car. It sounds like this is not your Daily Driver so you dont "need" it for work or anyhting. As painful as it is to see it not running, that should only be more inspiring for you to get under that hood and get dirty. With DSM's you begin to notice reoccurring problems, and either it will be you or your mechanic that gets good at fixing these small problems when they keep reoccuring, only difference is in one route you get smarter the other the mechanic gets richer and you get BROKE

Madison

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

So the shop you trust tells you that your performance exhaust is not restrictive enough?

I hate when my race car is to fast, and my dick is to big, and my GF likes to give BJ's to much. Why not actually fix the problem, instead of letting shops bandaid it with lame theory.

no, if you read it right, it is too free flowing. If you have 3" exhaust i bet it follows the correct path that the stock does right? well mine doesn't, i have said that so many times, it is straight out...after buying the turbo and all of the porting and everything we assumed that it was going to fix it, that is when we noticed that the problem wasnt having to port it anymore because we did that a million times, it was my cheap custom exhaust. I didn't want to buy another exhaust system and i didn't want to spend a ton of money right now on an external wastegate to "fix the problem" like you said. Its like you think you are some god about this when they have told me how to fix it but it is just too much for me right now. You seem to think that you are telling me all of this new stuff that i haven't already heard. I know how to "fix" the problem, but i had to do something cheaper to keep it under control for right now. I just dont have the money right now to do everything i really want to do obviously or i wouldn't have any problems. I mean thanks for the replies, but if you are going to start being a dick about stuff, i dont want to hear your crap from a 13.8 sec. 1st gen.

 

[mavisky]

Just curious what level of boost were you trying to run on the 16g?

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

i was only trying to run 17-18 psi?

 

[boostedinaz]

no, if you read it right, it is too free flowing. If you have 3" exhaust i bet it follows the correct path that the stock does right? well mine doesn't, i have said that so many times, it is straight out...after buying the turbo and all of the porting and everything we assumed that it was going to fix it, that is when we noticed that the problem wasnt having to port it anymore because we did that a million times, it was my cheap custom exhaust. I didn't want to buy another exhaust system and i didn't want to spend a ton of money right now on an external wastegate to "fix the problem" like you said. Its like you think you are some god about this when they have told me how to fix it but it is just too much for me right now. You seem to think that you are telling me all of this new stuff that i haven't already heard. I know how to "fix" the problem, but i had to do something cheaper to keep it under control for right now. I just dont have the money right now to do everything i really want to do obviously or i wouldn't have any problems. I mean thanks for the replies, but if you are going to start being a dick about stuff, i dont want to hear your crap from a 13.8 sec. 1st gen.

I was going to reply in many different ways but many of them might come off "God" like and I dont want to offend the sesitive ones. I will keep you and your post in mind. Good luck.

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

I was going to reply in many different ways but many of them might come off "God" like and I dont want to offend the sesitive ones. I will keep you and your post in mind. Good luck.

oh please do keep me in mind, i love just hearing usless information. I don't know how i am going to go along with out you, your "girlfriend" and your "race car"

 

[boostedinaz]

OK so now I will say what I think I should say.

First off you say you know how to fix the problem correctly but don't have the money to do to it. The title of this thread is says you have been trying to fix this for one year. I find it not only funny, put pathetic, that you couldn't save up enough money for an external gate in that time. I also have to laugh when you are building a performance oriented car and cant seem to save up even 250.00. You may want to get out now while you still have a bit of cash on hand, because it will only get worse from here. I made those comments because they are representation of your thinking and the theory you are using to "fix" your problem. It doesn't matter what the path of you exhaust is, the best exhaust for a turbo car is the least restrictive, but I'm sure you know that already. So your theory of adding back pressure is not only a stupid fix, but completely wrong for performance. We try to keep bad information and just stupid information from the forums and you posting that "putting more restriction in the exhaust" as a fix for the problem is just wrong and bad information. Some people don't like half assed projects, cars, or work and some do, but we will not be telling our members half assed ways to do anything. If someone, like yourself, would like to give those kinds of answers then I will point out the correct way to do it not just for your good, but for the good of the board and its members. If that makes you mad then it is time for you to find a new board or learn how to properly mod a vehicle.


Me using the knowledge I have gained from this board to help others doesn't make me God like in any sense. It does however show that if other members read and do things correctly they wont have to worry about wasting a year of time and money just to make there car slower. You also display more ignorance by thinking that a timeslip equates to knowledge.

So lets take a look at some cliffnotes.

You have boost creep and want it fixed. You claim to know how to fix it correctly, but you disregard that and just keep waisting time and money with other bandaids. You decide that the best bandaid is to lose performance by adding more restriction in the exhaust. You then get mad when knowledgable members point out that is bad way to fix it, then proceed to flame them. So for newbies on this board take a look at what happens when you don't do things the right way.

 

[DSM90AWD]

From: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183202&page=2&pp=25

...but in the end i just did everything i ever wanted to my car really and i am doing it all the right way instead of trying to be cheap and do things myself...thanks a lot boostedinaz for all of your help

Not to get into the middle of this (too late ) but doing things "the right way" as you put it is not consistant with your actions. I'm sure XXX-shop ported the bejesus outta your parts. But, unless they new what the f--- they were doing, they were not doing you any good and was just a waste of your money.

I've seen "professionally ported" EVO16Gs strait from SBR that are not ported correctly and they (should) know what they're doing. A little porting of the inlet of the passage leading to the WG (i.e. exposing that passage to th eexhaust flow) is the only "right way" to port.

I'm sure our paths will cross as will be hitting Cecil a bunch this summer. Can talk more about proper porting and local places that do quality work on DSMs

 

[oldman]

From: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183202&page=2&pp=25

John, remind me to put restriction on your web access if you ever become one of my employees.

JoeyJigglesGSX: Put your pride away and listen. Focus on what is being said instead of how it's being said. You should be thankful that Boostedinas is taking time out to try and guide you onto the right path and I happen to agree with everything he has said so far. I was recently promoted to the wiseman position and one thing I notice is that it's not as glorifying as most think, especially when you try to help someone and you get into a situation like this. Now take it easy and have a good day.

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

OK so now I will say what I think I should say.

First off you say you know how to fix the problem correctly but don't have the money to do to it. The title of this thread is says you have been trying to fix this for one year. I find it not only funny, put pathetic, that you couldn't save up enough money for an external gate in that time. I also have to laugh when you are building a performance oriented car and cant seem to save up even 250.00. You may want to get out now while you still have a bit of cash on hand, because it will only get worse from here. I made those comments because they are representation of your thinking and the theory you are using to "fix" your problem. It doesn't matter what the path of you exhaust is, the best exhaust for a turbo car is the least restrictive, but I'm sure you know that already. So your theory of adding back pressure is not only a stupid fix, but completely wrong for performance. We try to keep bad information and just stupid information from the forums and you posting that "putting more restriction in the exhaust" as a fix for the problem is just wrong and bad information. Some people don't like half assed projects, cars, or work and some do, but we will not be telling our members half assed ways to do anything. If someone, like yourself, would like to give those kinds of answers then I will point out the correct way to do it not just for your good, but for the good of the board and its members. If that makes you mad then it is time for you to find a new board or learn how to properly mod a vehicle.


Me using the knowledge I have gained from this board to help others doesn't make me God like in any sense. It does however show that if other members read and do things correctly they wont have to worry about wasting a year of time and money just to make there car slower. You also display more ignorance by thinking that a timeslip equates to knowledge.

So lets take a look at some cliffnotes.

You have boost creep and want it fixed. You claim to know how to fix it correctly, but you disregard that and just keep waisting time and money with other bandaids. You decide that the best bandaid is to lose performance by adding more restriction in the exhaust. You then get mad when knowledgable members point out that is bad way to fix it, then proceed to flame them. So for newbies on this board take a look at what happens when you don't do things the right way.

wow, you cease to amaze me...for that year that you have no clue about i have been guided in the wrong direction. I have gone through buying o2 housing w/ the dump tube from SBR and Monster Trubine housings from MachV that they said "would def. end my problems." So by waiting for almost 5 months for this dump tube to come in, i got it installed and it did nothing. Then i was told to go and buy a Monster Turbine housing, did that and did nothing. Now i just blew all of this money on parts that didn't do anything to help me.

Coming to a year later, since you seem so concerned. I found a good shop and asked them what to do. They told me that they have never had a problem when they use a EVOIII 16g, ported o2 housing, ported exhaust manifold, 3" downpipe and 3" exhaust all the way through. They are experienced in DSMs for over 15 years now, and have worked on tons of them. He garunteed me that this set up would work. When it didn't, they were shocked and then took my car back in to work on it again. Re-ported everything to the max it could go and made sure that everything was aligned right and very smooth. Helped out a lot but didn't do the job.

That is when we noticed my exhaust and asked where i got it from. Those bends in the exhuast are extremely important and i don't have them. Obviously the next thing to do would to get an external wastegate or new exhaust. Both extremely costly and i didn't want to spend all of that money RIGHT NOW. They gave me another option and that was to add some restriction. That was my decision, because at least i can drive my car again and have some fun.

This post was only to say that i have fixed my creep problem, and if you are saying i didn't your insane. I am sorry i dont have all the money right now to do it for the most power gains, but it works for now and feels great. So if anyone else who might be experiencing the same problem i am, i want them to know that the exhaust you buy should be from a good manufacturer or at least follow the stock path. Also from a respectable DSM place Road Race Engineering in California, say in their upgrade path that, "An external waste gate may be required to control the boost if you are using one of the larger upgrade turbos, especially if you are running with no catalytic converter at "the track"." Well in my case i need an external wastegate, but for the time being i am using a high flow cat and my car runs great.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I took some bends out of my exhaust and it didn't affect creep at all with my Evo III 16G.

Personally, I think you should have spent all that money on some aftermarket cams instead of all of these supposed boost creep solutions. Believe it or not, I think cams would help.

When it is warm out, I have zero creep with a bone stock Evo III 16G. No porting at all.

In the Winter, I have a little creep. But I run snow tires, so I can't even think of going WOT anyway. So I just use my foot as the boost controller.

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

I took some bends out of my exhaust and it didn't affect creep at all with my Evo III 16G.

Personally, I think you should have spent all that money on some aftermarket cams instead of all of these supposed boost creep solutions. Believe it or not, I think cams would help.

When it is warm out, I have zero creep with a bone stock Evo III 16G. No porting at all.

In the Winter, I have a little creep. But I run snow tires, so I can't even think of going WOT anyway. So I just use my foot as the boost controller.

man, boost creep is such a pain in the ass isn't it? i just think my car is on some serious crack

 

[boostedinaz]

That is when we noticed my exhaust and asked where i got it from. Those bends in the exhuast are extremely important and i don't have them.

It does not matter what shape exhuast you have, it doesnt matter if it is routed like stock or not, and for performance, the less restrictive the better. You said I havent told you anything you didnt know already, yet you continue to say that the shape of the exhaust is very improtant. If you think that rerouting your exhaust is going to fix your problem then by all means continue to chase your unicorn and waste more money and time.

I didnt have any problems amazing you when I helped you with your other problem, but now you seem to not only have a problem with me but with exhuast as well. Either way good luck.

 

[JoeyJigglesGSX]

I didnt have any problems amazing you when I helped you with your other problem,

what did you help me with?