Big Turbo

[hereitcomes]

yea but not from his motor ; )

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Well my goals are not near that mark so I have nothing to worry about. My question still continues, is this turbo practical for my motor. I dont really care about driveablitly, but i dont want ridiculous lag. Im looking for around 375-400whp on pump 93 and 450+ on c16. The only problem im seeing with my goals are my tranny and tunning. Which are to major factors. My friend who has an sc61 gets 25 psi around 4-4.5k and his motor is on stock 7.8:1 compression and has mild cams. SO what rpm will I achive around 25psi at? And Is it a must to use a different exhaust housing or can i get away with using this one?

Thanks for all your help

 

[1992awdlaser]

My question still continues, is this turbo practical for my motor.

Going to be hard to give an exact answer since I don't know of this ever being done. Based on what we know though to most people, no. I don't care about lag at all so it wouldn't bother me. It is capable of a good amount of power based on the airflow delta488 said it can flow also.

but i dont want ridiculous lag.

Based on what we know I am going to say look at a different turbo then. The only people that wo't care about the lag of this turbo are people like me that don't care about lag at all.

Im looking for around 375-400whp on pump 93 and 450+ on c16.

Get a gt30r or gt35r. This is way overkill for those goals.

SO what rpm will I achive around 25psi at?

Again going to be hard to give a good answer since this hasn't been done before.

And Is it a must to use a different exhaust housing or can i get away with using this one?

This housing could be used. You just have to make sure to get a manifold that will bolt up to it.

 

[turboglenn]

You will have rediculous lag, trust me on that! And if you're not going ot see anywhere near that power it's just another reason to change turbo ideas. You only want a turbo large enough for your goals so it will spool soon enough to give you the broadest power range possible.

 

[RipperXX]

72/lb a min. Something tells me even if he gets this to work. That is pretty much a drag race only kind of beast you have there. Not going to be street friendly.

 

[turboglenn]

^^ I've been trying to get the same thing across in every post i've made in this thread, but my text must be invisible because he still keeps asking about lag *shrugs*

 

[90AWDEclipse]

So I should waste a whole lot of money on another turbo setup and then have to buy a new one when my goals are made? I dont know what ridiculous lag is for you but as long as im making full boost by around 6k im good. Anyway there's a wierd setup for the oil return and feed heres the pic.

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Does anyone sell anything for this kind of turbo, or am i going to have to make somthing up?

 

[turboglenn]

What good is full spool by 6k if your motor can't make good power past 7500????? That gives you 1.5k usable "full boost RPM". A car that can make full boost by 3500-3800 (20psi on a 20g) is going to have a couple thousand more "usable" RPM of good horsepower than you and is going to own you on the street and you'll be left scratching your head wondering why your mondo sized turbo charger was so crappy for a street car. So unless your launching or stabbing the clutch to get the r's up in the 7k range when you wan to go, it's going to be a slow build up with only a second or so of "good fun" and then you're going to shift and have to re-spool that monster AGAIN!! meanwhile the 20g car is going to be midway through third gear and laughing at you. Trust me I've been doing this sh!t for 10+ (close to 13) years now and I've seen all sorts of combos where the guy with the "big equipment" is getting smoke by the "little guy" who actually put some thought into his setup and made a well balanced widely usable engine/car combo

Now don't get me wrong, if you drove a gutted car that turned 10k rpm and didn't need to be any good at driving in traffic then you'd be okay, but this would be somehting you most likely trailer to the track anyway. but for something you drive daily doing what you are talking about only equalls dissapointment

 

[sniperelite]

Ok, you have numerous people telling you that this turbo is going to give you big lag and yet you still ask about the lag. Then once you get many people telling you once again there is lag you back it up saying that you can always use this turbo for when you go bigger. Dude, I dont know why you made this post really just use the damn thing haha. You keep backing the turbo up making it seem like you really really want to use it so therefore....use it and be done with it.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

wooowoo why will i only be making power till 7500 please tell me why???

 

[turboglenn]

wooowoo why will i only be making power till 7500 please tell me why???

How about listing your mods to prove you have a motor that can handle more than 7500 RPM???? Then ill let you know! untill then i'm done trying to beat a dead horse so a deaf guy can hear. HAve fun with your truck turbo!

 

[90AWDEclipse]

OK mister farmer

.20 9:1 wisecos with eagle rods
clevit bearings
just going to get a reman crank ######
of corse balance shaft eliminator
all arp hardware
1mm oversized valves
manley springs and retainers
bc 280 cams
Fidanza cam gears
jmf street SMIM

Is this not safe for reving to that rpm?

 

[turboglenn]

WEll, you may be able to hold together and spool it by 6k, but it's going to be a dog untill then IMO. This is more of a turbo setup for a track only car, but i know more tahn one person who's trying to get away with running setups not nearly as large as that on the street and are dissapointed.

Please put your mods in you profile so that the rest of us can look at them when trying to help you make a decision.. My advice, get a good 50-100 shot to spool that thing if you really use it or my statement about the smaller properly balanced setup still holds true and the 20g car is gonna get you on the street where slicks and traction compound aren't found at every redlight.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Ok well thanks for the advice. So back to the earlier question does anyone know where i can get a oil/feed setup for this turbo?

 

[dsm-onster]

Ok here are the numbers. O and I put a picture of the blades later im at school right now.

Turbine -
Exducer - 2.761 (70.12mm)
Inducer - 3.080 (78.23mm)

Compresser -
Inducer - 2.321 (58.95mm)
Exducer - 3.138 (79.70mm)

The compresser only has 9 fins so it was a little wierd to measure
And all I did to convert the numbers to mm was multiply them by 25.4

He!! that's a gt40 turbine wheel. The compressor has very similar specs to a gt37 compressor.

That's some lag, city slicker. . . 280s + gt40 turbine + SMIM = no street fun.

That compressor will never flow 72 lbs/min!!! as mentioned by someone earlier. The inducer isn't even 60mm wide! But even the compressor is so much more rotating mass than neccesary for your goal.

You're going for 280 duration cams and looking for under 500whp ???

This turbo merits 280s, but not your goal. Nevertheless, your parts list seams rather complete for a turbo of this size except the tiny street intake manifold.

You can make 500whp with probably pump gas and the right intercooler with that turbo and list. Is that your goal or is 375whp with pump gas your goal. You need nothing on your parts list to reach 450whp ???

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Dsm-onster what would you recomend for and intercooler and intake setup (tb also). What injectors would i need, and do you think that 500 whp is practical for my setup with a greddy emanage or dsm-link.

 

[dsm-onster]

I have no experience with e-manage. If you can alter the timing curve with e-manage, then it should be enough. I think dsmlink is better. It's not a piggyback.

Personally, a good flowing ebay intercooler (A 9-12" by +20" and 2.5" thick bar and plate) and water injection can't be beat, in my opinion. Especially for the cost of a "good" intercooler. Absolutely NO super-efficient intercooler can beat a cheap frontmount and injection. And as for streetability, who's lazy enough not to check their water reservoir for the sake of over 100% intercooler efficiency WTF ?

2.5" intake pipe with a 1g tb works great. Or a PORTED 2g elbow with a stock 1g tb and 2.5 inch piping.

I'd look at the jm race manifold not the street version. A larger plenum is a real plus. A street manifold can go far, but you're swapping 500whp capable 6-bolt engine parts for forged, why go small on the intake manifold?

An intake pipe that matches the inlet diameter of the compressor is ideal.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Well i'll probaly go with dsmlink then. And for the intake im probaly going to go with he race version and a q45 throttle body there like 50 bucks on ebay, so it's worth it, and its like 90mm. But for a MAF do you think I should go GM maf or the maf pro map sensor. Thanks kinda of expensive but can the 3" hadle that amount of airflow?

 

[1992awdlaser]

You can get the 3" or 3.5" gm maf. The 3.5" version will be able to read more airflow so it will take more to overrun than the 3" version. I would just get a gm maf, whatever size you think it doesn't matter. Also, with Dsmlink if you overrun your maf you can use the fake maf feature. You enable it at a hz (airflow) point right before what you start to overrun the maf at. Then the ecu will ignore the maf input from that point on and will go off of a ve table that you make for it.

 

[gixrman]

Good luck controling wheel spin when that thing finally does spoolup. Look at investing in a true twin scroll T4 manifold also to help.

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^ I agree. a tubular t4 with a 1-4 & 2-3 coupled runners would really actually HELP spool speed even with a supposedly big turbine housing. The size of a twin scroll housing is very deceiving.

You will need rubber, lsd, and then aftermarket axles for this turbo, at least.

For 450 or so whp and dsmlink look at a 2g maf, too. There will be no tuning with dsmlink as the 2g flow transfer function is dialed in and a button click away. A gm maf with a translator should be calibrated. There's even a screenshot of how to adjust dsmlink for a hacked 2g maf (side and lower honeycombs removed). That's enough maf for over 500whp.

 

[turboglenn]

One question i have is if DSMlink only goes to 8k RPM, will he just be stuck with the last cell value at 8k RPM and above and have to just richen it up to cover everywhere above it or can he actually tune it in at 8, 8.5, 9 etc...??

 

[1992awdlaser]

The 8k value is used for all points after 8k rpm.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Really a hacked 2g MAF is good for 500whp, damn ok well I guess i'll just go with that then. Ive heard stories about the knobs in the MAF translator actually turning from vibrations.. But anyway does anyone know where I can get a oil feed/return setup for this turbo?

 

[turboglenn]

The 8k value is used for all points after 8k rpm.

That sucks, I like DSMlink, but as with some other simpler systems i've seen. I just cannot advocate having one set cell value for everything above a certain RPM or load point. Especially when talking about doing this to a motor that has a lot of moeny invested in it. If the OP is going to be regularly turning over 8k, i wold strongly suggest an EMS that is capable of mapping those areas and not just pegging to one value and holding it.

This would mean that above 8k RPM at WOT, if he was at 11:1 at 25psi, he would be leaner at anythign higher adn richer at anything lower,leaving you to set the boost one way and leaving it there unless you're just turnigng it down in which case you would go richer (safe) but if he was trying to squeek that last MPH of trap speed out adn turned it to 28psi and there's no individual mapping for that PSI then he would stand a strong chance of running lean and hurting the motor. I know people have gotten away with this and i'm not saying it's deadly just because of the way it operates above 8k, but it sure as hell isn't going to be idiot proof either and a whole lot less than ideal for a car that sounds like it's going to be spending a lot of time above 8k to keeo that turbo working efficiently.

My 0.02