big cams

[joshs1074]

sorry this is a dumb question and ive done some searching. if there is something somewhere
on this please let me know. i been thinking about upgrading cams but was wondering about the pros and cons of the upgrade. thanks

 

[1992awdlaser]

Make more power up top
Lose some power down low
Idle problems with some aggressive cams

That is basically it.

 

[jdunbar10]

couldnt have said it better

best set up is go 264/272 cams they good for street and power but not as agressive

 

[joshs1074]

thanks guys i appreciate it. is there a specific brand that is the most bang for the buck.

 

[jdunbar10]

my first set up was with comp cams they are cheap but a great cam well built never had a problem with them

 

[90_GSX_DSM]

I know 1992AWDLASER touched on it but i've heard from a pretty reliable source that cams on a turbo motor really don't help out that much. Owns his own machine shop, engine dyno tuner, and has dealt with turbo motors for years and years. Yes, it will help out hp numbers on the top end but it will sacrifice torque in low rpm's. In the end doesn't this just balance out and you have exactly what you had? Unless your racing on the highway from a roll or something but I'm talking 1/4 times. How much truth is there to this? I was dead set on upgrading my cams before I heard this.

 

[joshs1074]

a little less power on the bottom of a fwd might not be that bad i just spin tires anyways. any thoughts?

 

[Spoolin18]

Bigger cams really shine in cases of high boost or higher HP...I have heard of bigger cams messing things up in the head..springs and such if the cams is to big.

I would never use bigger cams on a DD...264 maxx if I did.

Personally I think there is more productive ways to spend your money that will net you more results that you can feel. IMO cams is on the bottom of the list of upgrades.

I hope you ain't one of those who likes sound over performance..WTF

 

[Spoolin18]

I should have checked your profile, I guess your close to that point.

 

[joshs1074]

i definitely prefer performance over sound. i try to keep things on the D.L. hence sleeper laser

 

[1992awdlaser]

I know 1992AWDLASER touched on it but i've heard from a pretty reliable source that cams on a turbo motor really don't help out that much. Owns his own machine shop, engine dyno tuner, and has dealt with turbo motors for years and years. Yes, it will help out hp numbers on the top end but it will sacrifice torque in low rpm's. In the end doesn't this just balance out and you have exactly what you had? Unless your racing on the highway from a roll or something but I'm talking 1/4 times. How much truth is there to this? I was dead set on upgrading my cams before I heard this.

Your guy is wrong. First of all, what rpm are you at when you are drag racing? A high rpm right? The only type of driving that suffers is normal driving because of the loss of low end power. Even an autocross car spends its time in the high rpms. Spool up will suffer slightly. But that is easy to deal with. Tell your guy to think back to the basics. What makes power? Fuel air and spark. The air means head(s), intake, cam basically. Any engine is limited in the power it can make because of the head(s). This includes how far the valves open, how fast they open, and how long they stay open.

 

[1992awdlaser]

thanks guys i appreciate it. is there a specific brand that is the most bang for the buck.

I would recommend either Forced Performance FP2's or GSC S2's. On a previous cam test with a bigger turbo than you have the GSC's made more power.Here are links to them:

GSC Power-Division Evo 1-3 and DSM S2 Camshafts :: Mitsubishi :: GSC Power-Division: Racing Inspired Products
Forced Performance Turbochargers: Engine

 

[joshs1074]

that makes a lot of since to me. and like i said i just spin down low anyways and and a little more on top wouldnt hurt. and thanks for the link 1992awdlaser

 

[90_GSX_DSM]

Your guy is wrong. First of all, what rpm are you at when you are drag racing? A high rpm right? The only type of driving that suffers is normal driving because of the loss of low end power. Even an autocross car spends its time in the high rpms. Spool up will suffer slightly. But that is easy to deal with. Tell your guy to think back to the basics. What makes power? Fuel air and spark. The air means head(s), intake, cam basically. Any engine is limited in the power it can make because of the head(s). This includes how far the valves open, how fast they open, and how long they stay open.

Yea man I hear ya. I never heard this from anyone else before so I was very surprised myself. He didn't say it didn't give ANY hp games but it seemed like he's not all that impressed with the gains it does give. I mean I can't argue with the fact that EVERY high hp dsm uses some sort of aggressive cam. It just really surprised me coming from "my guy" because he is very knowledgeble when it comes to engines. Maybe I'll tell him some guy on Tuners told him to go back to the basics, haha...

 

[95fwdtsi18psi]

It defiantly shouldn't be on your bottom of upgrades if you are looking for some high numbers. Say your goal is 400-450, running stock cams = no fuel for you! If you don't run cams where will you get your fuel?

 

[Spoolin18]

1: I thought he was adding cams before the other needed upgrades, my fault I didn't read his profile.

2:I would try and get everything eles inline in order to make 400+ hp, you know tranny stuff, turbos, fuel componets, tunning items.

Thats all I was saying, I didn't say I wouldn't run them.

Stock cams will suffice for most peoples goals, IMO

 

[JayRolla]

Bigger cams really shine in cases of high boost or higher HP...I have heard of bigger cams messing things up in the head..springs and such if the cams is to big.

I would never use bigger cams on a DD...264 maxx if I did.

Personally I think there is more productive ways to spend your money that will net you more results that you can feel. IMO cams is on the bottom of the list of upgrades.

I hope you ain't one of those who likes sound over performance..WTF

I agree with some of this. Once you get maxed out on your turbo and bolt ons then cams is a good upgrade. Will still give you good gains once you are at that point where most normal bolt ons are completed.

I dont agree with 264's though. They are expensive and would give you the least gains. 272 combo is the best for almost any application up too 600whp.

 

[e85_4g63]

I know this might not be the answer your looking for but I have a set of Delta cams (reground 272's HKS knock off's). They we're less then $240 shipped after your core return.

deltacams.com ask for Ken, he knows his 4g63 cams

 

[Spoolin18]

I agree with some of this. Once you get maxed out on your turbo and bolt ons then cams is a good upgrade. Will still give you good gains once you are at that point where most normal bolt ons are completed.

I dont agree with 264's though. They are expensive and would give you the least gains. 272 combo is the best for almost any application up too 600whp.

I agree with 272, but on a dd would 264 give a smoother idle than 272? Would it be enough to tell.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Yea man I hear ya. I never heard this from anyone else before so I was very surprised myself. He didn't say it didn't give ANY hp games but it seemed like he's not all that impressed with the gains it does give. I mean I can't argue with the fact that EVERY high hp dsm uses some sort of aggressive cam. It just really surprised me coming from "my guy" because he is very knowledgeble when it comes to engines.

I would be willing to bet if I put stock cams back in my 50trim car I would lose at least 25whp. And my car is nowhere near fully built, just bolt ons.

Maybe I'll tell him some guy on Tuners told him to go back to the basics, haha...

Go ahead. Just because a car has a turbo it doesn't mean you can sacrifice flow through the heads and make the same power curve as a modified head/cam combo.

but on a dd would 264 give a smoother idle than 272?

My FP2's idle perfect at 750rpm. Same as if my car had stock cams, just slight lope to the trained ear.

 

[joshs1074]

sorry i was gone for a while, yes it is pretty much a dd so so a nice idle would be good. a little lope would be fine

 

[1992awdlaser]

And for anybody doubting that cams are beneficial you can look at this dyno graph. This is from when AMS did a cam comparison. This is with a small turbo(16G) so even more gains will be realized with a bigger turbo.

http://www.amsperformance.com/camtest/Stock VS HKS 272 272.jpg


So even with just a 16G the car went from 309.5HP to 325.2HP.

325.2-309.5=15.7peak whp gained

Notice the torque increased dramatically also.

And as I mentioned earlier, there are gains throughout the mid to upper rpm range(only reason upper falls off with the 272's is the turbo can't keep flowing enough).

 

[joshs1074]

thanks alot for all your help you have answered all of my questions so far. i believe some 272 will be on my shopping list pretty soon!

 

[e85_4g63]

To the OP, no matter what cams you put in your still going to blow the tires off in 1st, probably 2nd, and chirp 3rd on a regular basis with decent boost. 16g's are like on / off switches! Great choice with the 272's!

 

[Spoolin18]

And for anybody doubting that cams are beneficial you can look at this dyno graph. This is from when AMS did a cam comparison. This is with a small turbo(16G) so even more gains will be realized with a bigger turbo.

http://www.amsperformance.com/camtest/Stock VS HKS 272 272.jpg


So even with just a 16G the car went from 309.5HP to 325.2HP.

325.2-309.5=15.7peak whp gained

Notice the torque increased dramatically also.

And as I mentioned earlier, there are gains throughout the mid to upper rpm range(only reason upper falls off with the 272's is the turbo can't keep flowing enough).

Thanks, I was going to go with 264's, but I think I will go with 272. I guess thats why your a DSM wiseman.