Beware of fake Apexi turbo timers

[RedTurboEclipse]

http://speedoptions.com/articles/5370/?SpeedOption

but what I want to know is.. besides being counterfeit.. DOES IT WORK? yes the parking brake feature and the a/f feature does not work.. but does everything else work.. mainly.. what people are actually buying the unit for.. turbo timing..

if that works.. and its SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper.. meaning.. say $50.. then thats a good deal.. not taking away from the original product.. cause you do get what you pay for.. *in some cases.. in this case you do because you wil get the a/f and parking brake feature.. but to tell you the truth.. in my perspective.. I could care less for the a/f and parking brake feature.. a/f ratio is crap.. inaccurate.. and a real built turbo cars are not solely determining how the car is running based on that.. and the parking brake feature is a minor extra that isnt necessary unless you are forgetful to put up the parking brake..

seriously.. i would use this news as a positive for a chance for people to get cheap new turbotimers that look like Apexi.. its all just electronics that aren't hard to duplicate.. (at least this) it prob. cost $10 to make in China and they sell it for $150+ brand new.. (real apexi brand)

they already sell knock-off HKS SSQV and Greddy Type S and Type RS BOVs on ebay.. from China.. people have been using them and have said they work just like their real counterparts.. I wouldnt hesistate to purchase this knockoff turbo timer if I didnt already have one and I was looking for one, and the knockoff was $50..

apex'i is worried about the knockoffs cutting into their import car electronics monopoly ("their" being.. apexi, greddy, blitz, hks).. it all comes down to the money.. we need more knockoffs like this so they will be forced to sell their units cheaper.. just like the China brand APEX DVD Players.. that changed the entire DVD player market.. I wouldnt mind seeing similar in the automotive market..

always like looking in the not often viewed perspective .. aka my opinion..

 

[Black95TSIawd]

if the knock off works just as well in the aspect of turbo timing, i'd buy it for 50 bucks. It isnt really that smart to tune off the o2 volts displayed. Its a turbo timer and as long as it does the job, its ok in my book.

 

[psychlow]

The reason that it's shitty is the fact that they're using APEX Integration's logo and brand image to make money. If they branded it as their own unit, then it'd be fine.

A lot of folks are getting items they expect to have APEX's backing on, and finding out that they don't get it.

 

[Defiant]

A water-cooled turbo has no earthly use for a turbo timer, real or counterfeit.

 

[peregrine]

A water-cooled turbo has no earthly use for a turbo timer, real or counterfeit.

i agree with this to a point. if you run the shit out of your turbo then immediately shut it off your asking for trouble watercooled or not. id let it sit for a couple of minutes. if its just normal driving then yeah, what defiant said applies.

 

[Spyder4g64]

The knock off doesnt work well at all... the real unit doesnt "time" the turbo as you said up there, it utilizes the A/F volts to coutdown at IG. off. The knock off doesnt have the A/F feature, therefore it isnt as accurate. And a water cooled turbo does need to cool off. They utilize oil lubrication as well, and when the oil gets hot, you dont want it gumming up inside the lines. Isn't that the point of a timer in the first place?

 

[2GturboTALON]

http://apexi-usa.com/news_special.asp

There are people selling fake APexi turbo timers!!!!!!

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

yea i posted this a while back.. but if it all work and does what its suppose to do, id buy it.. i mean come on, its a turbotimer.

 

[TurkF26]

ya its not like your buying a fake tial BOV or something.. its just a TT

 

[mavisky]

yea i posted this a while back.. but if it all work and does what its suppose to do, id buy it.. i mean come on, its a turbotimer.

How about I steal your social security number and buy my new car off of your credit score, not much different as I'm using your name and reputation with people as a way to further myself without having to do any of the hardwork myself. Same as this company, taking Apexi's advertising and product design to benefit themselves without doing the work Apexi has done in sponsoring cars and developing new products.

People need to realize that giving these small companies money instead of the big companies means that the big companies may go out of business, and then who will design the latest and greatest item for this company to rip off and sell to you. All of this is totally leaving out the potential issues for it to short out or not time correctly. Sure it may work, but for how long, and what kind of customer support are you going to get from the company that copied this unit, my guess would be next to none. That's the whole problem with the market today, noone wants to pay for what a nice item costs, they all want to get it as cheap as possible, and then bi*** when it breaks.

You've got to look at everything in the typical business sense, and there's an old saying that will always ring true.

You can get products quickly, cheaply, and well built, but you can only get two of the 3 on any one item.

The problem is that cheap and quick gets bitching that it broke, well built and cheap and you'll get bitched at for taking too long, quick and well built and it'll cost too much and noone will even buy it.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

How about I steal your social security number and buy my new car off of your credit score, not much different as I'm using your name and reputation with people as a way to further myself without having to do any of the hardwork myself. Same as this company, taking Apexi's advertising and product design to benefit themselves without doing the work Apexi has done in sponsoring cars and developing new products.

People need to realize that giving these small companies money instead of the big companies means that the big companies may go out of business, and then who will design the latest and greatest item for this company to rip off and sell to you. All of this is totally leaving out the potential issues for it to short out or not time correctly. Sure it may work, but for how long, and what kind of customer support are you going to get from the company that copied this unit, my guess would be next to none. That's the whole problem with the market today, noone wants to pay for what a nice item costs, they all want to get it as cheap as possible, and then bi*** when it breaks.

You've got to look at everything in the typical business sense, and there's an old saying that will always ring true.

You can get products quickly, cheaply, and well built, but you can only get two of the 3 on any one item.

The problem is that cheap and quick gets bitching that it broke, well built and cheap and you'll get bitched at for taking too long, quick and well built and it'll cost too much and noone will even buy it.

Right on! All this bickering about EVO 3 GT and Ebay parts is getting so old. I agree; no one wants to spend money for good parts anymore. I said the same thing you said a while back about all these knock-off parts regarding it hurting the real companies that do the R&D, so I won't repeat what was already said. Modifing cars has never been, nor will be cheap. It's an exprensive game. If you can't pay, don't play. And for God sake, all you cheap, whinny 'tuners'... just shut up.

 

[MrBoxx]

Thank you for putting it the best way I've ever heard it, mavisky. I'll even add to it a bit, if I may. If I had a choice between buying a fake turbo timer off of some guy on Ebay or buying a real turbo timer from a dedicated vendor like Road/Race Engineering (which is where I got mine), I'll pick the vendor every time. Why should I give my money to somebody whose interest is not making advances in technology for our cars, but just making money?

But like I've said in other threads on knock-offs, I'm not going to tell anybody what to buy or not to buy. The difference here is that the Apexi TT fakes actually have the logo right on it, unlike most other knock-off items which will be titled "Greddy-styleBOV" or whatever.

 

[TurkF26]

yes that is true how you put it mavisky. I totally would never buy a knock off part for any car because it is not worth it.

so Mr boxx... do you do any shopping around at all for prices or do you only buy your products from one vendor?? do you buy anything on ebay because there are real items on ebay that you can get a real good deal on.. i personally have bought some items off ebay and all are real and hever had any problems with them.

 

[MrBoxx]

I don't stick with one vendor, no. I tend to do a lot of research before I buy anything, to the point where my friends make fun of me for being too cautious. I have bought a few things on ebay, like my headlights, which work great. I tend not to consider things that are obvious copies of items, though.

Truth be told, though... I don't even have a budget large enough to afford the fake products right now, much less the genuine article.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

Companies getting their products copied has been going on ever since the beginning of industries time. Is it right? Some will argue that it's not, but if it wasn't for some type of imitating I think the prices of products that you buy would be out of site, but then again I don't think all of our jobs would be jumping to China either.

Personally, I am going to find the best price for something I want to buy. I don't care what it is or the quality of customer service (that is something of that past now-a-days), I want my hard earned dollar to stretch as far as possible. Every dollar I make mostly goes to bills and expenses, etc. and when all is said and done I have about 1.1437% to myself to spend on my car. Does that make me a cheap, whiny tuner?

Exactly, criticize me for supporting knock-offs and what not, but I'll spend my hard earned dollar wherever I please. It's about choices. People will buy something they really want regardless of price, but other things they won't care too much about brand, quality, etc and purchase the cheapest ones. When DVD players started to come out, the only thing we had to pick from were the big brand name expensive players. Then enter the China made, most likely reversed engineered with cheaper parts, etc, but did the job playing DVDs came out, and a big share of the market for low cost DVD players went to them. Audiophiles and brand name junkies will always swear by the big names, and those who really don't care and just want something to do it's job will purchase the cheapest thing. \

That concept has always been around the automotive scene, except now it is just getting bigger and what some will say better. First it was only with accessories and lil things. Now it's taking a stab at the more important parts such as turbos, fmics, etc. Only those willing to risk trying out the cheaper alternative can tell us if the cheaper price was worth it.

So far the B&M short shifter, some of the "like this style" BOVs, and of course the FMICs work great. This turbo timer I'm sure works and does what a turbo timer is suppose to do. Sure your missing the a/f gauge and the parking brake feature, but I don't even use or have that feature on my old greddy. Again, APEX'i loyals wouldnt care to purchase these, but someone who really doesn't care about turbo timers, because it's not really a priority or have a significant importance in their build up would find it a deal for a cheap turbo timer. It's about choices, and as long as the products advertised does what it's suppose to do, bring it on.

Of course, what I do find wrong is copying everything down to the packaging. Obviously that's illegal.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

Companies getting their products copied has been going on ever since the beginning of industries time. Is it right? Some will argue that it's not, but if it wasn't for some type of imitating I think the prices of products that you buy would be out of site, but then again I don't think all of our jobs would be jumping to China either.

Personally, I am going to find the best price for something I want to buy. I don't care what it is or the quality of customer service (that is something of that past now-a-days), I want my hard earned dollar to stretch as far as possible. Every dollar I make mostly goes to bills and expenses, etc. and when all is said and done I have about 1.1437% to myself to spend on my car. Does that make me a cheap, whiny tuner?

Well, customer service does still exist. It depends on where you're shopping. Considering that fact that you're supporting knock-offs brands, that could be a reason you think it's gone... no? Hey, if you don't care what "it is" or the customer service, then don't come on here and bi*** about it. That's what I'm talking about. Every other thread is "How's this Ebay part" blah blah. It's so annoying. So you until you make a thread bitching about your Ebay part breaking, or wanting advice on yet another SSautochrome turbo kit, then buy whatever you want.

Hey, it's not my problem that you only have 1.1437% of you money left over for your car. Don't bi*** at me about it.

 

[suicidal2af]

Right on! All this bickering about EVO 3 GT and Ebay parts is getting so old. I agree; no one wants to spend money for good parts anymore. I said the same thing you said a while back about all these knock-off parts regarding it hurting the real companies that do the R&D, so I won't repeat what was already said. Modifing cars has never been, nor will be cheap. It's an exprensive game. If you can't pay, don't play. And for God sake, all you cheap, whinny 'tuners'... just shut up.

Yes, but what you don't take into account with the "never been, nor will be cheap" thing is the obscene markup on car parts. You think it costs GReddy or Apex'i $600 to make a catback? I probably costs them $40. There's no appreciable R&D involved in something like that, either. You could argue equipment costs -- but Joe Tuner can go to his local shop with a Mandrel bender and have the same thing made for $200.

How about bov's? It's a valve with a pressure port and a spring. Not rocket science, here. The only reason the cheap knockoffs are knockoffs is because they make them look similiar. But hey, that purple anodizing cost greddy a lot of money.

Fact is, the reason these parts are so expensive is, simply put, this: people have always, and will always, pay the premium associated with them.

 

[99gst_racer]

I merged this thread with the older, original thread.

 

[mavisky]

Personally, I am going to find the best price for something I want to buy. I don't care what it is or the quality of customer service (that is something of that past now-a-days), I want my hard earned dollar to stretch as far as possible. Every dollar I make mostly goes to bills and expenses, etc. and when all is said and done I have about 1.1437% to myself to spend on my car. Does that make me a cheap, whiny tuner?

I have no problem with you shopping around for the best pricing. I won't even begin to say that I don't compare prices when I go looking for parts. If you were to spend your money with the right companies you'd know about customer service. I often spend a little more money on parts to buy them from well known companies. Sure I still shop prices, but I only compare between places I know I can trust. I've bought many parts from big named dsm shops such as Buschur Racing, Forced Performance, RRE, and the like and have never once had a problem that they weren't more than happy to help me with. Were I to buy some chinese knock-off part through an ebay shop I have no doubt that the customer service would be shit, but that's what you pay for.

Yes, but what you don't take into account with the "never been, nor will be cheap" thing is the obscene markup on car parts. You think it costs GReddy or Apex'i $600 to make a catback? I probably costs them $40. There's no appreciable R&D involved in something like that, either. You could argue equipment costs -- but Joe Tuner can go to his local shop with a Mandrel bender and have the same thing made for $200.

Let's compare say a $600 Greddy catback to a $300 ebay catback. Both are mandrel bent, both make good hp, both are shiny. So for that it looks like the ebay one is a much better deal, right? What about fitment, I can guarantee you that every Greddy catback will fit perfectly, include every nut bolt and hanger you need and will be nicely packaged and shipped so it doesn't show up at your door all ####ed up. Which one came out first? If it's for a new car I can almost guarantee you the Greddy came out first, the ripoff company bought one and based theirs on Greddy's design work. Which one will make the most hp? I'd almost guarantee you that the more expensive one will make a little more hp, now it might not be much, but I bet it will. What about testing? You think that ebay catback will pass emissions in Cali? I bet that Greddy will. Remember that cool import event that you went to last month? Who put forth the cash for the winners of the drag racing? Greddy or that ebay company?

There's alot more that goes into an exhaust than just some tubing and a muffler. Right now these big named companies are what keep the industry pumping and slowly these internet based dorm room speed shops are chipping away at them while not putting money back into the same scene that is currently paying their bills. It's this short sided-ness that these new shops and some tuners aren't seeing.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

All you guys getting your panties in a bunch about me and Mavski not supporting rip off companies need to be take a walk in the real companies shoes. All you care about is getting parts cheap. Have some business sense. I'm sure if you made a nice, qualtiy product and were sucessful with it, then some lazy asses on Egay were too stupid and lazy to make their own shit, so they just copied off you, I'm sure you'd be cool with it.

You're only thinking of yourselves.

 

[diambo4life]

That is THEFT, period. I can not believe this is even up for discussion but again, with the currect cheap DSM idiots running around, I am not exactly shocked.

 

[huafist]

If someone copies the FUNCTIONALITY of a product and sells it cheaper, that's just capitalism at work. It's a good thing. Competitive marketplace and all.

but,

If someone copies the DESIGN of a product and sells it cheaper, it's reverse-engineering. It is illegal AND immoral. Stealing another person's product, copying it, and selling it as your own is theft, plain and simple. You can try to justify it to yourself and everyone else all day long, but the facts speak for themselves.

On top of that, going a step further and using the name, logo, and packaging of the company that the design was stolen from opens a whole new can of worms. Now it's theft, fraud, and defamation (when the cheap products fail and people think they were genuine).

Companies that do this crap exist because people are gullible and will buy it because it's cheap, the thought never crosses their minds they're buying something that isn't going to be up to par quality-wise with the original. Same goes for knockoff nikes in indonesia, fake DVD's in china, etc, etc.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Unfortunately this problem doesn't stop at TT's and BOV's. I recently came across this on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=8039553484&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT

This appears to be almost an exact copy of...

http://www.jmfabrications.com/dsm.html

And finally Jim is pretty pissed off over the matter...

http://philadelphiadsm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4299

 

[clipise]

if businesses cant handle people copy their shit, then they shouldnt in the business world. its going to happen no matter how hard u try to stop it. look at bill gates, he hes a low life who copied from apple. look at him now. im not saying ripping companies is right, but its going to happen. i bet u guys have knock offs in your house and u dont even know about it. sadly, this is the world we live in.

 

[Mr4G]

I absoulutly agree with clipise. That is absoulutly true. As for diambo4life, it s wrong to walk around looking like me, but i can tell why you would want to. read this entire thread before you post, cause if you did you would never had posted that. Stealing someone s personal identity has nothing to do with this thread what so ever. I think clipise put it the best anyone could. Right on DSMer!!!