Best Cams For The Street

[Bohrn]

anyone have experience with Crowers Stage 1 cams??

Also, anyone have mileage and emmissions figures?

I ask because where I live, 94 octane is expensive, and our smog Nazis have too much power.

 

[nano]

I have Crower stage2 and my milage didn't change any. As for emmisions I don't think it'll pass with them but I don't know about stage 1s.

 

[rubbersidedown]

i have a 1g w/ a stock head. so which would be be better, the hks 264/264 or the hks 264/276? or does it really even make much of a difference. All this talk of diff cams has gotten me a little lost so that's why i have to ask.

 

[90GSX]

It's 272, not 276.

If your head is going to remain stock you probably won't get much out of the 272's, above and beyond what the 264's will give you.

 

[rubbersidedown]

but if i decide to go for the 272's right now will it hinder performance at all? oh, and will i lose much if any low end w/ the new cams?
btw, if it seems like a dumb question then it probably is, i'm a newb.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Why is this thread two pages long? HKS, plain and simple. 264, 272, it's up to you. No need for debate.

If you think you are going to run Crowers or Webs you will need adjustable cam gears and you will need to properly degree the cams with a wheel and light. Which most of you probably have no idea about. So just get the damn HKS and run them straight up with the stock gears. In the end you will have spent less.

 

[90GSX]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
Why is this thread two pages long? HKS, plain and simple. 264, 272, it's up to you. No need for debate.

If you think you are going to run Crowers or Webs you will need adjustable cam gears and you will need to properly degree the cams with a wheel and light. Which most of you probably have no idea about. So just get the damn HKS and run them straight up with the stock gears. In the end you will have spent less.

Very well said.

 

[GSTspeedracer]

If you think you are going to run Crowers or Webs you will need adjustable cam gears and you will need to properly degree the cams with a wheel and light. Which most of you probably have no idea about. So just get the damn HKS and run them straight up with the stock gears. In the end you will have spent less.

You don't have to have cam gears for the Webs, What? $300 for some gears and end up with what 3-5 hp more, money better spent somewhere else. Although, their nice piece to have. I guess for all that you'd spend on those HKS, you could get Webs and gears and in the end you'd spent the same. Just pray those Webs don't wear down!

Let's go for 3 pages........:laugh:

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by GSTspeedracer
You don't have to have cam gears for the Webs, What? $300 for some gears and end up with what 3-5 hp more, money better spent somewhere else

Apparently you just completely missed the point that a few of us were trying to make. If you buy webs and the are 5-8 degrees off there is a hell of a lot more to be gained then 3-5 hp. When the webs are degreed that poorly your idle is in the toilet and your throttle response will suck.

Originally posted by GSTspeedracer
Let's go for 3 pages........:laugh:

People like you that completely ignore or miss the point are why threads go on as long as they do.

 

[nano]

All the big problems with Web Cams haven't happend for quite a while I belive. I personally have had great results with my Crowers and there not timmed. Idle is very smooth and car's low end is just as responsive as stock. I don't know if you know Andre but he's timmed he's Webcams and quite a few others and he said all of them where perfectly timmed fromt he factory. My friend just got a pair of 546/547 grind and he's even sound just like stock at idle I couldn't tell he had Webs at all untill he told me. They idle better then mine do. In mine you can hear the lopiness. Who knows mine might be off by a bit but I still gained 2.5 mph in my traps and 3 tenths. Dre also retarted he's exhaust cam by 2 degrees and he lost about 10whp so out of time cams can cause quite a bit of HP loss. But I think the new Webs have a much better rep then they used to.. Better then Crowers from what i've seen.

 

[NDgsx]

HKS is better than any other aftermarket cam. End of discussion.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by nano
I don't know if you know Andre but he's timmed he's Webcams and quite a few others and he said all of them where perfectly timmed fromt he factory.

When you say timed do you mean degreed? There is a huge difference between installing cam gears and adjusting them and actually taking the time to properly degree a motor and THEN make adjustments. I don’t think Andre has even taken the time to degree his cams.

Most of the research that I have seen from people like Quinn Whipple and a few other big DSM guys have show just how much variance domestic cams can have. HKS CNCs their cams so at least they are all the same.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by NDgsx
HKS is better than any other aftermarket cam. End of discussion.

Some people seem to know better

 

[jdmawd]

cams are cool

 

[nano]

Originally posted by rdrkt

When you say timed do you mean degreed? There is a huge difference between installing cam gears and adjusting them and actually taking the time to properly degree a motor and THEN make adjustments. I don’t think Andre has even taken the time to degree his cams.

Most of the research that I have seen from people like Quinn Whipple and a few other big DSM guys have show just how much variance domestic cams can have. HKS CNCs their cams so at least they are all the same.

Sorry. Yes I meant degreed.. He's posted about he's old bad cams web cams and he's new ones that he degreed and came out perfect, along with a few other poples cars he's degreed with a new install of web cams. I know HKS have a rep of being degreed perfect every time but I think the Webs have worked out a lot of their bugs. I haven't heard any new complains from them for a while. Unfortuanetly Crower still has some quality control issues every now and then. But all the ones that I've seen ran preaty good. Maybe one day I'll degree mine. But it seems to be a pain in the butt to get the proper degreeing tools that will work on a 4g63 head. A lot of it seems custom made from what I've seen.

 

[nano]

Originally posted by NDgsx
HKS is better than any other aftermarket cam. End of discussion.

Duh!! I should of known. It all makes since now..

And pepsi is better coke right?
j/k

Why do you think it's better?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
Why is this thread two pages long? HKS, plain and simple. 264, 272, it's up to you. No need for debate.

If you think you are going to run Crowers or Webs you will need adjustable cam gears and you will need to properly degree the cams with a wheel and light. Which most of you probably have no idea about. So just get the damn HKS and run them straight up with the stock gears. In the end you will have spent less.

Exactly.

 

[BatmanGSX]

I was right, most of you have no idea what properly degreeing cams is all about. The problem with Crower and Web is they can't make the same cam twice, they have the same lobe specs but they end up, for lack of a better way to describe it, put the dowel for the cam gears in the wrong spot. Essentially the whole cam ends up being off. With a degree wheel and timing light you can tell this by when the valves open when the crank is turned from the TDC position on the #1 cylinder.

I've heard of #@%#@%#@%#@% Webs being off by 15 goddamn degrees before. Not all Webs will be that bad, some will be closer to spec, it's all a shot in the dark, that's why you need to damn cam gears and to degree them (this has nothing to fu@king to do with just dialing the gears back and forth at random). Or get HKS because they are all to spec, perfect, just like the cam card says and just like the designs intended.

Or don't listen to me, RDRKT, NDgsx and L2RTSiAWD, do what you want and wonder why your car doesn't perform.

 

[eclipseyou]

Are june cams good because I got a set really cheap...Please somebody let me know?

 

[BlueShark]

This is kinda off the topic but I was wondering what kind of idle vacuum you guys see with HKS 264/276 and what rpm idle that is. I'm thinking about it and just looking for more info since I have an issue with idle.

Thanks guys.

 

[jdmawd]

such hostility....cams are cool

 

[nano]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX


I was right, most of you have no idea what properly degreeing cams is all about. The problem with Crower and Web is they can't make the same cam twice, they have the same lobe specs but they end up, for lack of a better way to describe it, put the dowel for the cam gears in the wrong spot. Essentially the whole cam ends up being off. With a degree wheel and timing light you can tell this by when the valves open when the crank is turned from the TDC position on the #1 cylinder.

I thought they where timmed using a piston stop and a degree wheel to find the real TDC and then using some sort gaguge that measures rocker movement to find when the valve is fully closed in relation to the #1 cilinder TDC point. Therefor finding out how many degrees off the point of when the valve closes is compared to TDC. I haven't found many documents or seen many tools to do this for DOHC heads. And the ones that I have are usually for V8s. This is how I understand it, so please explain if I'm wrong.

 

[NDgsx]

You measure movement with a dial indicator. Just make a steel piece to bolt onto the cam caps to mount it. It's really not that hard to do.

I say there the best because I have tried degreeing 3 sets of HKS cams with the stock 7 bolt on my engine stand. Each set was perfect. The one set of web cams (street grind) I tried were 8 degrees off. Crowers are also not great.
Every time I have seen someone switch to HKS cams they ran faster.

 

[nano]

Thanks.. Wow, 8 degrees is a lot. I the only reason I got Crower is because I got them for $350 brand new with no shipping. I guess I'll really have to learn how to degree them.

 

[HighPsi91]

I dont know nano, if your stage 2 cams are giving you good bottom end and idle then you must have got a defective set. (yours may actually be ground right)