Base Fuel Pressure for 1000cc Injectors??

[tsi1991awd]

So I know what the base pressure should be set at on an AFPR for stock injectors....but what should it be set at for 1000cc injectors?

I have 1000cc Delphi's (PTE / FIC) and an AEM AFPR, Walbro 255HP fuel pump. What should I set base pressure to?

 

[SBR Joe]

Just so I am understanding 100% correctly....the chip will take care of all the timing maps and everything, overriding the supposed "shitty" stock maps and all I have to do is set the MAF-T to 450cc's and leave everything else zero'd out....THEN leave the SAFC zero'd out unless I need to fine tweak something? Up the boost and presto, everything will already be configured automatically???

You got it. As you described, it will override the "shitty" stock maps, because it will replace it. With the new chip set up for you desired settings, it will take the stock ECU maps place, therefore telling it what it needs to know and essentially, making your "stock" ecu maps, what you need them to be.

YOU will tell Jeff what you want the ECU to make for peak timing, air fuel ratio, etc along with a plethora of other cool settings like launch control, and such.

Example, a stock ECU will continue to advance timing through the gear until it begins to knock, this timing will only advance more and more if you leave the stock maps there with the big injectors and air flow bolt ons to try and compensate for what its seeing, it will think somethings wrong basically and just keep advancing timing to accomdate the massive amounts of excess fuel its picking up on. With the DSM chip you determine what the timing peaks at. On my 14b car, the 93 octane map was set up for 11:3 target air fuels and a peak timing advance of about 18 degrees, on the 115 race gas map, peak AFR's are programmed to be at 12:1 AFR's and about 28 degrees peak timing. Obviously this will differ from what you will want given your setup, youll just have to use some tuning know how and do some research to see what others that may be running similar setups have it at.

What setup will do you plan to have when its all said and done? I can assist you in what it should be at safely but still have the potential to make some good numbers.

 

[tsi1991awd]

So it will be able to compensate when I turn the boost up to 25psi then? I honestly don't know as much about tuning as I'd like (OBVIOUSLY)...but hey I guess that's why I'm asking.

 

[SBR Joe]

So it will be able to compensate when I turn the boost up to 25psi then? I honestly don't know as much about tuning as I'd like (OBVIOUSLY)...but hey I guess that's why I'm asking.

Sort of. Youre gonna want to set this up with the daily boost levels your gonna be running in mind. AFR doesnt change much with boost levels especially when youre running a 1:1 FPR like i believe you are, the more boost the more fuel pressure therefore keeping target AFR's right around where theyre set at via the fuel map. The timing map is more important when having boost settings in mind. You can have the target AFRs on the chip set assuming 12psi peak boost, and with a good AFPR those air fuels will stay about the same even if you cranked it up to say 25 psi. Its the timing maps that will begin to interfere when you have that happen. For arguments sake only, say youre running a 3076, and have target AFRs set at 11.5:1 on 93 octane, running only 12psi, you can probably run mid 20's peak timing all day long, now if youre going to be blasting 25psi daily on the same setup, the AFR's wont change much from it previously running 12psi, but youd only want to be topping off at only around 16 ish degrees of timing with the added boost levels, not mid 20s. You see what i mean?

 

[tsi1991awd]

Say the AFR is set at 11.5:1, as per your example. Would I be able to use the SAFC to change the AFR if I wanted to be at a different AFR? Or would this not be possible since it is already pre-programmed?

 

[SBR Joe]

Say the AFR is set at 11.5:1, as per your example. Would I be able to use the SAFC to change the AFR if I wanted to be at a different AFR? Or would this not be possible since it is already pre-programmed?

Yes you absolutely could. The AFR set up via the chip is basically going to be its "new stock" settings, you can still manipulate it with the SAFC just like it were a factory map.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I honestly don't know what my base AFR should be.

My setup is like this:

-20g
-AEM 1:1 AFPR
-Walbro 255hp
-1000cc Delphi's
-6 Bolt Block
-1g Big Rods
-2g Pistons
-PNP Head
-SS Valves
-3-Angle Valve Job
-8.1:1 Compression
-FMIC
-3" GM MAF
-MAFT
-SAFC

I may be leaving something out, but I believe that's most of it. I want to run 25-28psi daily. The rebuild is fresh, about 10k miles on it. My main goal is 380awhp...if I can get more out of it then f*cking awesome, but that's what I want for right now.

 

[SBR Joe]

I honestly don't know what my base AFR should be.

My setup is like this:

-20g
-AEM 1:1 AFPR
-Walbro 255hp
-1000cc Delphi's
-6 Bolt Block
-1g Big Rods
-2g Pistons
-PNP Head
-SS Valves
-3-Angle Valve Job
-8.1:1 Compression
-FMIC
-3" GM MAF
-MAFT
-SAFC

I may be leaving something out, but I believe that's most of it. I want to run 25-28psi daily. The rebuild is fresh, about 10k miles on it. My main goal is 380awhp...if I can get more out of it then f*cking awesome, but that's what I want for right now.

Well, if youre going to end up going with a chip or link, etc. Set it at 43.5psi with the vacuum line off. Thats what the injectors are flow tested at and thats what they would go off of when creating the fuel map.

To be honest, 380awhp is a stretch with a 20g, if youre running pump gas youll want to shoot for around 11:1 AFRs at those boost levels, and keep timing down around 15 or 16 degrees. On an E85 map, you could probably rock out with 11.5:1 AFRs with the cooler combustion temps, and knock out around 22-24 degrees or so of timing up top...this is assuming youre running a TD06H 20g, am i correct? Or is it a bastard TD05H?

Keep in mind this is generally the range youd be able to be at. Every car is different, which is where the DSMlink would be an advantage, because you may be able to get away with like 26 degrees of timing with no knock, who knows, but if you set it up that way with Keydiver, and its too much advance and it does knock, then youre SOL and have to get it re burned and have some down time. Granted, you could probably dial down any knock from excessive timing advance by adding more fuel where its knocking, with the SAFC.

PS if youre running 2g pistons, theyre 8.5:1

 

[tsi1991awd]

Thanks for clarifying on the 8.5:1....couldn't remember.

As far as the 20g, it is a TD05. This is a hop from the piece of trash ebay 16g that was on the car when I bought it. In and out shaft play galore.

350-380awhp is golden, I'm sure that's doable.

I am sending you a PM regarding V3 Lite.

 

[SBR Joe]

Thanks for clarifying on the 8.5:1....couldn't remember.

As far as the 20g, it is a TD05. This is a hop from the piece of trash ebay 16g that was on the car when I bought it. In and out shaft play galore.

350-380awhp is golden, I'm sure that's doable.

I am sending you a PM regarding V3 Lite.

Then you can probably get away with more timing up top being a 5H turbine.

I made 369whp on my old 1g FWD with a mistu 5bastard 20g, running about 26psi, with 780's, EVO MAF, the proper bolt ons and an SAFC tune, sticking with a stock ECU and Sunoco 94 octane and damn near 12:1 AFRs, i was peaking at like 27 degrees of timing with under 10 counts of knock on a logger. That car was a freak though, it didnt like to knock alot no matter what i did.

If youre running E85 its possible for that kind of power, on pump gas and being AWD its not very likely that youll make those numbers, but who knows.

 

[tsi1991awd]

How come you could get those numbers then? Because it was FWD?

 

[SBR Joe]

How come you could get those numbers then? Because it was FWD?

Yes that was a big part of it, the rest was just because the car was a total freak. I could literally throw anything i wanted at it and it didnt care and still made wicked power.

i mean hell, with a stock SMIC, 14b, open stock downpipe, with just a fuel pump and an SAFC and 17psi, it layed down 289whp....hahaha. it was destined to rip....that is until that deer decided to prance out in front of it.

 

[habitatguy187]

Steve pwns this thread.



Tuning e85 with an safc isn't hard at all, and 1000cc injectors with e85 and a stock ecu would be a good setup. If you don't have the cash for link right now don't even worry about it, your timing would be bumped up a little (which is a good thing on e85) and the tune would be easy to dial in.

 

[SBR Joe]

Steve pwns this thread.



Tuning e85 with an safc isn't hard at all, and 1000cc injectors with e85 and a stock ecu would be a good setup. If you don't have the cash for link right now don't even worry about it, your timing would be bumped up a little (which is a good thing on e85) and the tune would be easy to dial in.

Noone said the tuning for WOT would be hard or not possible with an AFC, just much more difficult since hell be fighting what the stock ECU will be trying to make it do, its the drivability from the inability to tweak the airflow tables that could possibly be an issue, and on top of that, the low throttle tuning, again, because the stock ecu will have a sh#t fit. More or less an annoyance if anything. My whole point is while yes, you may be able to make it work somewhat decent, the SAFC had its run years ago. Yeah it still works and works well, but for a setup like this, its probably the least efficient way to do it unless he is using a chip to at least correct for the injector size he has.

And telling him to not worry about link, or a chip, etc is kind of stupid, because just the shear fact that hes running such a large injector kind of makes it almost necessary just in it self. If he doesnt have the money now, he should just wait till he does, then install the injectors, so hes not having to manipulate the ECU like he was a sociopath haha.

EDIT: on a sidenote, id just like to mention (because it slightly humors me) that a few years ago i was actually BANNED from this forum because of a thread where i had mentioned it was OK to tune 750s in a car with an SAFC alone, even though you can, as i had many a times successfully. Now im arguing the complete opposite and its OK now to run 1000cc with an SAFC. haha, not trying to pick any fights, i just find it kind of humorous.

 

[steve]

One more time.

Running 1000cc injectors on gas with only piggybacks, even two at once = bad thing.
Running 1000cc injectors on E85 with only a piggyback, doable but not the best option.

Either I'm either not reading correctly what you've posted or your all over the map here. I didn't see it as important to go into it but I'm left feeling like your putting words into my mouth.

 

[SBR Joe]

One more time.

Running 1000cc injectors on gas with only piggybacks, even two at once = bad thing.
Running 1000cc injectors on E85 with only a piggyback, doable but not the best option.

Either I'm either not reading correctly what you've posted or your all over the map here. I didn't see it as important to go into it but I'm left feeling like your putting words into my mouth.

Im only refuting the fact that youre agreeing that it is perfectly fine to tune what he has with what he has and keeping the ECU stock. Whether or not its doable is one thing, its just the fact it would be much more difficult trying to dial it in properly.

Maybe im misunderstanding what youre saying at points, which is why were not on the same page haha.

The whole point im arguing is doing this on a stock ECU and not having a chip or link to correct for the injectors right from the get go, is not the best idea.

 

[steve]

After reviewing, what I've posted looks pretty consistent with how I summed it up.

I explained that he couldn't use what he has running gas but it could work if he was running E85.

 

[SBR Joe]

After reviewing, what I've posted looks pretty consistent with how I summed it up.

I explained that he couldn't use what he has running gas but it could work if he was running E85.

And my point was, yes he probably could, its the off throttle tuning and drivability that may somewhat suck with the inability to correct the fuel trims and tweak air flow tables. It may drive fine, it may not. I guess with DSM's you cant really know until you do it because they all act different, but every E85 car i tuned with link i had to always make air flow table adjustments to get the fuel trims where they need to be for the car to like it and drive smoothly.

But i will still stick with the fact that he should at least get some kind of chip to aid in his tuning adventures by at least getting the global fuel corrected with the injectors hes running, and im certain you can agree on that point, plus if hes doing E85 he can really reap the benefits of having the gobs of timing hed be able to have programmed into it to want to make some killer power like you had mentioned previously.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I sent Jeff an email so hopefully he will get back to me soon about a chip. I will probably run his chip and then make corrections, if necessary, with the SAFC. Or maybe I will go with V3 Lite....goddamnit, too much to think about.

 

[steve]

Either way will work. DSMLink is clearly the premier way and an outstanding product. I just wanted to make sure you knew you were heading for problems on the path you were taking.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I appreciate you pointing all of that out, Steve. It has saved me from much frustration. I could always take the chip out from Jeff and replace it with ECMLink chip if I ever decided to go that route, right? Or would the ECU need to be socketed all over again to accept the ECMLink chip?

 

[steve]

I could always take the chip out from Jeff and replace it with ECMLink chip if I ever decided to go that route, right? Or would the ECU need to be socketed all over again to accept the ECMLink chip?

Once the ECU has a socket you can change chips easily. So socketing is something you have done once.

 

[tsi1991awd]

Awesome...well just waiting to hear back from Jeff. hopefully he can help me out.

 

[MY1GDSM]

I seen You having a hard time getting to your power goal on pump 92 it's by no mean imposable it's just gonna be easier on E85... E85 shouldn't be too hard although the trips to Oly. all the time might not be.... LOl

Pretty sure this is the closes E85 station to you
~Shell~
3505 Pacific Ave SE
Olympia, WA 98501
360-459-4004

here's a full list of stations in the PNW it's probably handy to know where they are before you make the switch http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/pac...977-e85-stations-washington-oregon-idaho.html

 

[tsi1991awd]

Shit, going 30 miles just to get gas....I better buy myself a tanker truck

 

[94'TSI'AWD]

So I know what the base pressure should be set at on an AFPR for stock injectors....but what should it be set at for 1000cc injectors?

I have 1000cc Delphi's (PTE / FIC) and an AEM AFPR, Walbro 255HP fuel pump. What should I set base pressure to?

according to FIC website all their injectors are tested at 43.5 PSI (3 bar)