bad valve stem seals or guides?

[DSMer541]

so I'v had this problem for a little while now but it's slowly getting worse...but to start off, some info on the head... It's a Jackson Auto Machine CNC ported head with bronze guides, +1mm valves, dual valve springs, Ti retainers and HKS 272 cams, and I have about 6k - 7k miles on it.
I have been getting oil around my exhaust manifold were it meets the head and my car smokes during warm up from a cold start and smokes a little during warm idle after I drive it kinda hard and it idles for more than a few minutes... but not while cruising or normal driving, and doesnt smoke during boost....

So I pulled the manifold off tonight to look into the exhaust ports and sure enough its a little oily in maybe 3 out of 8 of them, not much, but its on the top of the port and some of the guides look gunked up and the valve stems also seam like they have some build up on them....

My question is, how do I know if the guides have gone bad or if its the valve stem seals leaking oil down the valve stem??? is this anything to be really conserned about or can I still drive my car till I can afford to send the head in for repair??

So I just went and pulled the valve cover off to see if I can see anything fishy in there... After rotating the engine a couple turnes, I look into one of the valve springs at the seals and I noticed it looked like the valve stem seal came up with the valve, like I can see the top of the guide.... I dont think thats sposed to work like that, and now there is oil dripping down on the valve stem in that exhaust port!?!?! so Im assuming somehow I have a couple of lose valve stem seals??? and thats whats causing the oil to leak into my exhaust???

 

[BogusSVO]

first, the seals are a press fit, they should not move with the valve, but stay on the guide.

if it is just bad/loose valve stem seals, driving the car will not hurt the engine, just smoke, keep checking the oil level so you do not run low and damage the engine that way.

if the guides are bad, really bad, like throwing a hot dog down a hallway bad, you will smoke, and have a miss beacuse the valve is not seating on the seat insert.

since you have a JAM head, have you called them and see what they have to say?

 

[Yamaharyder600]

The stem seals definitely should not move with the valves. I would maybe mention it to the manufacture, being its of low mileage but other wise I would pull the head and replace the seals. Gonna be a bit of a pain in the ass but it will keep oil out of the cyclinders.

 

[DSMer541]

ya I contacted JAM and they said this could happen if the valve is flaoting or the spring is binding, and can cause the stem seal to be grabed by the spring and cause it to dance around inside the spring. they are dual valve springs and I never rev past 7500 on HKS 272 cams with a 16g at 25 psi.

 

[DSMer541]

So come to find out, the idiot that sold me the head had OEM valve stem seals installed with the dual valve springs, thus causeing the springs to rub on the seals and cause them to lift off the guide... So I guess I have to buy the small OD seals and replace the ones in there.... I hope this didnt cause any harm to the guides or springs....

 

[DSMReviver]

so are you the second owner of the head?

Valve seal come loose because of vale spring rubbing against it? that is unlikely. how do you know it had come up? Do you have pics? i am just carious to see how this could happened.

 

[BogusSVO]

I doubt you had the spring hitting the seal, unless it was a double bander style seal and not a netal clad style. if the spring is moving enough to hit the seal with a metal clad, then there are other issues.

I would guess that the seals were not installed properly, if they are a metal clad

Metal clad is the OE style

 

[DSMer541]

so are you the second owner of the head?

Valve seal come loose because of vale spring rubbing against it? that is unlikely. how do you know it had come up? Do you have pics? i am just carious to see how this could happened.

yes I am the second owner, but was unaware of this condition... the head came from a reputable shop ( Jackson Auto Machine) so I never though twice about it, but its possible that someone else replaced the stem seals at some point and had no idea what they were doing.

I actually saw the top of the valve guide and the seal sitting at the top of the valve spring, when it should not have came off the guide in the first place.

So if it is unlikely that this happend then why do people highly recomend using small od valve stem seals when using dual valve springs????

I already talked to a local professional DSM mechanic and he agread with me that this is exactly what happend.... you can't use OEM size valve stem seals with Dual Valve Springs, or this can and will happen.