Resolved Bad misfire, wont idle right.

[TurboTesh]

Hi guys... my lc2 seems to be hooked up right i think? but my car wont run right.

Background:
Ran great before winter. Over winter;
16g installed w/tubular manifold.
Lc2 installed and running narrowband to stock o2 pinout.
Vrsf intercooler installed
Complete timing side redone.
Emissions/EGR deleted
Damaged wiring harness badly and had to solder and wrap 10 wires.

Now it starts and will stay alive, but lc2 shows 17-22 afr and the car idles like it has a huge cam. Fuel pressure is 40ish with hose on.

No boost leaks, and great compression. Codes thrown are below.

Ideas?

Sometimes i hear a buzzing from the engine bay, have heard that since i got it. Related?

 

[Vegas Smith]

1) check mechanical timing
2) check electronic timing
3) check plug wire sequence ( I goofed this up last week)

 

[TurboTesh]

Plug wires are correct. Mechanical timing is good. All marks line up.

If i hold it at 1400rpm it seems smooth, but afr stays pegged lean at 22
How does electronic timing get off?

Its weird to me that theres no code.

 

[crash]

Check for exhaust leaks pre O2. You said no boost leaks, did you check the gasket when you did the egr delete?

Also, was the battery connected when the wiring harness got damaged? What wires were involved?

 

[Vegas Smith]

How does electronic timing get off?

Ahh, you didn't set the cam angle sensor (CAS)? It sounds like you don't know what that does. That could be your problem.

 

[TurboTesh]

One thing i forgot to check was manifold flange flatness. I think it was okay though. A guy had ran it previously for 3k miles.

The egr blockoff plate has a new gasket and both surfaces were clean.

The battery was connected... because i hadnt started any teardown yet, just intercoooler install. I blew 6 fuses. Not sure which wires were damaged, my electrical service manual was a nightmare to read so i gave up. Confident i put good solders on the wires though, and the colors were matching.

Im going to check timing one more time... but im pretty sure i got it right.

Maybe i damaged my resistor pack, or a coil? Ecu?

 

[TurboTesh]

Ahh, you didn't set the cam angle sensor (CAS)? It sounds like you don't know what that does. That could be your problem.

No haha. I didnt know i had to do anything with the CAS! Timing job instructions dont mention anything about it.

 

[boostdawd]

Was a power wire touching ground when the battery was connected? It's possible the ecu may have been damaged if your confident the wires u repaired were done right. Pull it out and inspect it.

 

[ThunderChild]

U still running a maf? Could be a post maf/pre turbo leak. Also check your pcv hoses.

 

[Vegas Smith]

No haha. I didnt know i had to do anything with the CAS! Timing job instructions dont mention anything about it.

Regardless of whether you find the problem you need to get a timing light and check your CAS timing.

 

[A Sharp]

If you are still running the 2g cas, it is not adjustable. The 2gs use a separate crank sensor to keep track of the exact position of the rotating assembly. The cas is just there to keep track of the firing sequence, so it does not need to be set very precisely. There is no diagnostic timing pin to ground on a 2g, but there are still ways to verify the timing. You will need a way to lock timing at 5 deg. BTDC. I normally do that through ecmlink, so perhaps there is a way to do it through ecu flash?

 

[Vegas Smith]

If you are still running the 2g cas, it is not adjustable. The 2gs use a separate crank sensor to keep track of the exact position of the rotating assembly. The cas is just there to keep track of the firing sequence, so it does not need to be set very precisely. There is no diagnostic timing pin to ground on a 2g, but there are still ways to verify the timing. You will need a way to lock timing at 5 deg. BTDC. I normally do that through ecmlink, so perhaps there is a way to do it through ecu flash?

Good point.

 

[Lou98GSX]

You might just have a bad o2 sensor

 

[TurboTesh]

Good chance my mechanical timing is off. I cant tell you how many times i redid it till i thought it was right.

I have a pencil in there to find tdc and the other marks line up. Both marks seem to angle up a bit, but thats just how they fall.
Im sure most of you can tell me in an instant if its wrong.
Anyone want to come do it for me? Haha

 

[Vegas Smith]

You have to line up those top two marks and the bottom crank sprocket as well.

 

[TurboTesh]

Crank sprocket was lined up with its mark, as was the balance shaft and oil pump.

 

[jim95redgsx]

If your #1 piston was really at TDC when you took those pics, your cams are definitely out of time. Your exhaust cam is advanced 1 tooth and your intake cam is retarded 1 tooth. The timing marks have to line up with each other but they also have to line up with the top of the head or a straight line between the centers of the bolts that hold the cam gears on.

I would redo your timing belt ASAP. Make a mark on the center of the cam gear bolt heads and hold a straight edge between those 2 marks . Make sure that the timing marks line up with the straight edge.

Jim

 

[TurboTesh]

If your #1 piston was really at TDC when you took those pics, your cams are definitely out of time. Your exhaust cam is advanced 1 tooth and your intake cam is retarded 1 tooth. The timing marks have to line up with each other but they also have to line up with the top of the head or a straight line between the centers of the bolts that hold the cam gears on.

I would redo your timing belt ASAP. Make a mark on the center of the cam gear bolt heads and hold a straight edge between those 2 marks . Make sure that the timing marks line up with the straight edge.

Jim

Thanks for the input, this timing belt thing is kicking my ass. Ill redo it asap... sigh.
Thanks for the patienece guys. I appreciate every post!

 

[boostdawd]

U need to make sure that the cam timing lines match. Use a straight edge to make sure they are not off. They can match inwards but the outer marks may be way off.

 

[TurboTesh]

I will redo it tomorrow. ive disassembled the timing side again and will attempt to time it again. Hopefully i didnt cause any damage. I didn't hear any valve on piston action... ill compression test afterwards to make sure Its still 178.

 

[Macgyver'sDSM]

Just something else to check while you are at it. You may have an injector not fireing if your idle is that bad and your running lean. Try starting the car and unplug the injectors one at a time. If you unplug one and it doesn't impact the way the engine runs that injector is not fireing. When an injector is not fireing your gauge will read lean.

 

[TurboTesh]

Just something else to check while you are at it. You may have an injector not fireing if your idle is that bad and your running lean. Try starting the car and unplug the injectors one at a time. If you unplug one and it doesn't impact the way the engine runs that injector is not fireing. When an injector is not fireing your gauge will read lean.

Okay I will check that too, for some reason when I started it yesterday (it still ran like crap obviously), but it only reads 16.5 AFR now, not 22. Maybe I had a clogged injector from sitting. I'd clean them, but I have a set of 850's going in as soon as I get her running

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

When was the last time you Free Air Calibrated your LC2, I didn't see anyone mention that so I would be doing that first so that the ECU knows for sure what fueling requirements it needs to be giving. Sorry if it was mentioned and I didn't catch it.

 

[TurboTesh]

When was the last time you Free Air Calibrated your LC2, I didn't see anyone mention that so I would be doing that first so that the ECU knows for sure what fueling requirements it needs to be giving. Sorry if it was mentioned and I didn't catch it.

I just calibrated it a few days ago in open air. guage shows proper 22.4 before startup.
Thanks for the idea though! Now i cant wait to get out of work so I can go fix my timing haha.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Do yourself a favor and get some 4g63 timing tools. This is one that locks the cam gears into place so that all you manipulate is the bottom gears:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timing-Belt...206156?hash=item1c797b458c:g:VnYAAOSw-zxWmVmP

There are 2 more that make life a lot easier. Do a quick search. I have all 3.