Any experience on ebay external gate/ Punishment o2 housings?

[44pirate]

Ok cool, that kind of spring pressure should help my little 16g out.

What turbo are you running by the way if you dont mind me asking.

35R DBB

 

[housegsx]

yea thats what I ment nuts and bults, but the one you bought from them ( the black o2 housing in the picture ) it didnt come with gaskets? Im sure I ordered the same one you displayed in the pic above...

Well I bought a evo 16g turbo and Tial 38mm off of them too so I don't know if the gaskets I got actually came with those or as a package or the o2 housing. You'd have to ask them. They are a pretty cool shop to deal with.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Well I bought a evo 16g turbo and Tial 38mm off of them too so I don't know if the gaskets I got actually came with those or as a package or the o2 housing. You'd have to ask them. They are a pretty cool shop to deal with.

So I hear.... Well if they dont include it guess I will probably just whip out some high temp rtv I am going to try my best to measure any changes in performance over my current internal gated ported evo3 o2 housing setup.

Boost control and higher spring pressure aside, I actually feel that the exhaust flow on my current o2 housing probably will flow the same, or better than the recirculated punishment one im getting?

 

[arash15]

I have a punishment o2 eliminator housing with the v band flange setup. I had to modify it alot to make it bolt up, I wasnt too happy about that since you pay for something that is supposed to be bolt on.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Ok update, I just got home from a long day of work not too long ago and walk into my room to take a nap and see a box with my o2 housing stareing at me in the face.... So no nap time for me, Im not very patient when it goes to installing parts on my car so after I eat I will begin the o2housing swap...
If there arent any kinks, hopefully it will be all together by sometime tonight and I will go do some pulls and feel out any changes in anything I can observe, and hopefully if my friend doesnt mind being out late, I will borrow his laptop so I can do some logs even, and then I will post back tommorow.

To add, the order for this o2 housing was sent out monday, so Id say shipping was pretty quick, and dealing with Punishment was pretty stress free, and the piece looks fresh and of quality. I have nothing negative to say.

 

[44pirate]

Ok update, I just got home from a long day of work not too long ago and walk into my room to take a nap and see a box with my o2 housing stareing at me in the face.... So no nap time for me, Im not very patient when it goes to installing parts on my car so after I eat I will begin the o2housing swap...
If there arent any kinks, hopefully it will be all together by sometime tonight and I will go do some pulls and feel out any changes in anything I can observe, and hopefully if my friend doesnt mind being out late, I will borrow his laptop so I can do some logs even, and then I will post back tommorow.

To add, the order for this o2 housing was sent out monday, so Id say shipping was pretty quick, and dealing with Punishment was pretty stress free, and the piece looks fresh and of quality. I have nothing negative to say.

You got the recirculating O2?
If yes, then a little tip.

Start all 4 bolts of the wastegate flanges, and slowly turn each a turn at a time. It's a tight fit. You don't want it to get cocked while tightning it up. At least for me it was real tight with the gaskets and trying to line up holes and bolts.
Good luck.

By the way I'm boosting 32psi now.

 

[Black_Bullet]

You got the recirculating O2?
If yes, then a little tip.

Start all 4 bolts of the wastegate flanges, and slowly turn each a turn at a time. It's a tight fit. You don't want it to get cocked while tightning it up. At least for me it was real tight with the gaskets and trying to line up holes and bolts.
Good luck.

By the way I'm boosting 32psi now.

I wish that I wouldve read this before I went to install it. ^
As I couldnt get those damn holes lined up for shit, and then my friend came up with the idea of getting a drill and slotting it, making two of the non threaded holes bigger slightly.
Hmm, I wonder which was slightly off on measurement, my Punishment o2 housing, or my Ebay external gate....

Then me and my friend went thru a ton of trouble trying to get my old exhaust components off and the new stuff on correctly, and trying to tighten down the hard to reach o2 housing bolts with barely adequate tools was a little pain.

It got late and I didnt even bother to reinstall the DP because I have been incorrectly running my WBO2 sensor in the stock o2 housing hole which I know is much too close, therefore while the DP was off I was going to take it and get the bung welded on at a local exhaust shop the next day.

Looks like Im suppose to have a bigger turbo under this hood now

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[Black_Bullet]

So I decieded to take it for a quick run to test my boost despite the fact that I was running open o2 housing.

The external gate has both the smaller and larger springs installed and the boost source line is tapped into the nipple that is on the top ( when gate is installed on o2 housing.)
44pirate mentioned his boost to be rock steady at 21psi with this spring combo.
The lowest I got mines down to was 24psi, but I still had the mbc hooked up, and its very touchy, could have still needed to be loosened up some to get the boost lower.

So first and 2nd pull straight over boosted to 30psi super fast, but I let off instantly.
I lowered the setting on the boost controller to were its at the minimum it could be.

The 2nd pull I was impressed with.
24-25ish PSI HOLDING 24 psi ALL the way to about 6500rpms were I let off. (3rd gear)
Now this is a significant improvement for my car. Previously on the old internal gate setup the car would spike 24-25psi and always be down to 21-20 psi at that rpm, amd sometimes less at redline depending ambient air temp. Therefore my theory of increasing performance with the external gate and stiffer spring vs stock internal gate light spring had proven correct.

Then unfortuantly I had to pack up my testing/ tuning runs early as I went for my like fifth pull; after idiotically missing 4th gear and dumping the car into second and almost over revving, but luckly I reacted fast with my foot on the clutch. On a following pull the car started spooling slower and holding less boost to redline and I later realize one of my crappy (ebay included) composite external waste gate gaskets pretty much burned and blew off and I have a massive exhaust leak right at the o2 housing were the ex. gate bolts up.

You can see were the gasket gave up in the pic.

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Anyone have any ideas of what I can put there to temparily hold it without the exhaust leak.
I was hesistant on high temp RTV sylicone even though its worked on exhaust related parts for me before.
Im sure a higher quality metal gasket from the 38mm Tial would likely be what I needed but tommorow I am going to try what my friend Kris did on his external awhile back and just use a bunch of permatex copper spray and maybe it will let me run with for awhile with no gasket. ( My DD.)

 

[44pirate]

The metal type gaskets work best. That high temp won't hold. There will be 1600 degrees coming out of there.

I have an extra gasket.

 

[Black_Bullet]

The metal type gaskets work best. That high temp won't hold. There will be 1600 degrees coming out of there.

I have an extra gasket.

My friend has some metal gasket maker, Im going to give that a shot.
If that doesnt work then Ill try it WITH high temp rtv.

Looks like I need to order some metal gaskets from Jnz or something.
Nobody has any local.

Id like to hear if any of you other guys running this ebay external gate had quick gasket failures like I did. ( 5 pulls WTF) The gasket that failed actually was metal, just probably not as high quality as the ones that come with the Tial 38mm's.

Im going to take my MBC off completely and just run a line to the W.G. from that, because so far I cant get the boost any lower than 24psi, and More ideally I want my spring pressure to have lowest boost around 18-20. I dont think I will ever have need to run beyond 25psi since I dont have e85 nor do I use race gas or meth.

 

[44pirate]

The lowest boost your gonna be able to run is what your wastegate pressure is at with the 2 springs.

 

[Black_Bullet]

The lowest boost your gonna be able to run is what your wastegate pressure is at with the 2 springs.

I know. I was under the assumption it would be around 21psi since thats were you claimed yours to be. I havent really gotten to play with it though, and I did my pulls with the mbc still on. I will just pull it off and run a line straight from the wastegate to the external gate and see what that does.
The massive exhaust leak I had could've been altering the way the car was boosting since it was leaking at the waste gate side that pushes the valve up , therefore the leaking air could be resulting to less pressure imposed on the external gate spring, meaning Id naturally boost higher.


I did a attempt to fix my exhaust leak today.
I ditched the crappy ebay gaskets and I smoothened out the surface of the w.g. flanges and sprayed a bunch of the permatex copper spray and even did a light coat of the orange high temp rtv... I know it sounds tacky but I dont care as long as it works, I dont have down time to wait for new gaskets, and my friend said he did the same thing and it sealed... SO Hopefully it will work out, and I wont have to take that thing apart again. I will post back whenever I have more info.

 

[JWoodley]

The open DP is probably responsible for the extra psi on the same spring combo.

 

[Black_Bullet]

The open DP is probably responsible for the extra psi on the same spring combo.

Not really, the lose of back pressure from not having an exhaust system shouldnt affect the setup since its external gated. The springs inside the wastegate should soley be responsible for how much boost I get, the external gate doesnt care what happens after it passes the o2 housing.. Spike or creep from lack of backpressure shouldnt be an issue on this setup imo.

When I was doing the runs it was open o2 housing, but the car is always ran open DP btw.
I have a 3in electric cutout coming right off my DP about 2 feet after the flex section.

I think the exhaust leaks were affecting the boost, but then again like I mentioned before, the boost controller was still attached when I did those runs. The only true way to tell is to remove it and just run the vacuum hose to the external from the jpipe and then see what it does.

So far the RTV and permatex copper spray is holding. I drove it about 12-15miles last night and I boosted up to about 10 psi maybe once or twice, no full throttle I was just cruising and no leaks so far. I want to give the stuff a day or two before I go full boost again to let it have some heat cycles and fully cure.

At the end of the day with all this, Im looking to have a minimum boost of about 19-21psi no more no less, and see about 24-25psi daily holding as long as possible thru the revs without it fluctuating between different gears and temperatures like the crappy internal setup did.

I still have a couple minor boost leaks to fix ( tb shaft seals, and my forge bov leaks after 20lbs ) but
I think this setup will perform really well if I can get this e316g to maintain about 24-23psi all the way to 7k
especially considering this is a cammed motor. ( BC272's.)

 

[dsm-onster]

Just to add. I've had excellent success with an ebay extenal gate from 5 to 30psi for many miles now.

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I have "different" boost control valve routing. I use two cheap boost valves. I've found this works well even with the weak spring with which the ebay gate came. I can hold 30 psi with this that spring.

It takes som tweeking of both cheap ball-and-spring MBCs but very low boost and very high boost has been achieved. The consistancy and lack of spiking is great benefit.

Setting the valve forthe top por first to get a "base setting", then adding the valve like shown above for the lower port after, has been the best way to allow for high boost. The boost can be adjusted out to 17-20si with mysetup, then adding that second valve I can bring the boost on earlier; and, so far, to 29-30 psi... when I dare myself.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Dsmonster, pics look good, you painted your ebay gate?
Also you should clean up that engine bay some, some tucking here and there never hurt anyone

Just to add, Ive been having some other little issues with my car at the momment, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...-narrow-band-post151561498.html#post151561498 but
the last pull that I got to do with the mbc off, and just a line going from the jpipe to the side nipple on the external gate, the minimum boost with my spring combo was 20psi. It felt way more linear than before in the way it spooled up and it held 20psi in all gears and stayed there to and past 7k redline
After I fix my other issues I will get the boost back up to 25psi and see how she does.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Oh and one more thing btw, I never took off the stock flapper for the internal gate setup to make it easier to reinstall an internal wastegate for whatever odd reason need be.
I didnt think it would be a problem since its just going to blow open anyways since theres no rod on it.
So I was just going to wire it open.

 

[1stGenTSi]

Dsmonster, pics look good, you painted your ebay gate?

No, it came blue like that. eBay Motors: 35MM/38MM V-band External BL Wastegate Turbo Dump 8psi (item 170241090748 end time Jul-24-08 21:34:08 PDT)

 

[Black_Bullet]

So now its dialed in on 25psi falling no less than 23psi at 7k ish. So another 3 psi from 6 to 7k than my internal gated setup would manage, and rock solid boost control, no creeping or spiking. Id say this is a worthy mod even for a small turbo; and I wont have to feel iffy about putting a bigger turbo on and not having all the hardware, after a pressure plate/ clutch disk upgrade and new double 3rd gear syncro the car will be ready for a larger snail if I choose to go that route !

Whats the difference between using the top port or the side port on the external wastegate.
I have it on the side port right now ( view the pics I put earlier in the thread.)
What will happen if I put it on the other port ? I mean I know I could just go and try it and find out, but asking first may save me some gas.

 

[chavez408]

I need my 14b to go external so bad. So all you need to do is remove the arm?

 

[housegsx]

Jay, you want the line on the side port.

I need my 14b to go external so bad. So all you need to do is remove the arm?

Technically yes, but just to be sure you aren't blocking flow to the wastegate rendering it useless I would recommend removing the flapper. I also ported out the housing leading to the wastegate. Of course it also depends on what turbo you are using. This is on an evo 16g.

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[Black_Bullet]

Ok just to be 100%, look at my pic in post #32 and thats were its at now and tell me if thats the correct place; Im pretty sure it is, but I dont want to be confusing side port for top port since the side port is technically on top when its installed vs when its not installed and your just looking at the w.g by itself standing up.....

Whats the difference with using the other port?

Housegsx, I didnt really feel that leaving the flapper on there was a problem, I mean its just going to blow open anyways when pressure touches it. The w.g. is doing as its suppose to so I figured Ill just wire it open so its not flapping around and leave it that way and in case I ever for whatever reason sell this turbo or want to put the internal setup back on It will be easier.

 

[housegsx]

Yep, same as mine.

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[Black_Bullet]

K thanks.

 

[fwdeclipse]

That is how I had mine also and a local guy told me I will have better hold in boost if I use the top nipple also. I have the ssautochrome gate and the gasket has not gone bad on me yet.