another built 6 bolt that is slow!!! help!!!

[allrice4g63]

Ok lets start this thread out with just saying i hate posting unless I have to... To bring everyone up to date on my car it is a 95 awd, 6 bolt swap with venolia pistons, eagle rods, acl race bearings, polished crank 14b turbo, huge front mount, turbo xs bov, maft with gm 3 inch, fic 550s, mbc, aem wideband, 3 inch exhaust from turbo back, 2g head, 1g intake, arp headstuds, walboro 255 and block is oringed...
Now on to my problem well obviously everybody in the dsm world would agree tuning with a maft is probably the most inconsistent way to go but its what i have to work with right now. I am running 16 psi on a 14b with wideband readings around 10.00 to 10.8.. i am getting about 12-15 degrees of timing in boost. When i set psi to 10 psi or 16 psi it pulls the same and i get the same afr and same timing so how does this make sense. I have tried swapping the injector wires around according to the magnus 1g in 2g swap, still nothing. I have absolutely no boost leaks up to 25 psi, With a 14b and 550s on 16 psi shouldn't it pull harder than a 14b on 12 psi with 450s..... so what am i doing wrong here...

 

[bryanwheat]

You are a little on the rich side for real good performance. I would lean it out to around 11.2ish. The 14b should definitely feel a little faster at 16 psi than it did from 12 psi.

 

[allrice4g63]

i have tried leaning it out all the way i even tried switching the base on the maft to adjust the whole curve and still notta... it made me think my timing was off a half a tooth or something but its dead on...

 

[slow91]

umm ditch the maft and switch to speed density!!!!!

 

[wickedz]

umm ditch the maft and switch to speed density!!!!!

This and also to a extent, SD will self tune

 

[Mischif]

12-15 degrees of overall timing in boost is rather low.

 

[rr06rs]

This and also to a extent, SD will self tune

Extent?

 

[arrowhead]

NO 1.

You are running the wrong intake and getting a lot of reversion unless yiu hogged out the head.

I dont see how you could tune under that condition.

 

[oneslowwdsm]

NO 1.

You are running the wrong intake and getting a lot of reversion unless yiu hogged out the head.

I dont see how you could tune under that condition.

x2 I don't know how his car even starts. I had the same setup when I swapped my 6-bolt and I did not know the 2g manifold wouldn't match the 1g head. The car didn't start until I swapped manifolds.

 

[rr06rs]

In addition to the manifold issue, how are you running the map sensor since the 1g manifold doesn't have a flange? Also, I assume you're logging since you knew the timing figures....why aren't you tuning it with ecuflash??? You have a 98. Of course its gonna be slow when you have no way to manipulate the timing curve.

 

[bryanwheat]

NO 1.

You are running the wrong intake and getting a lot of reversion unless yiu hogged out the head.

I dont see how you could tune under that condition.

The car will start just fine with a 1g intake on a 2g head. It will also run good under boost. Is this the ideal setup, no, but it will run good.

x2 I don't know how his car even starts. I had the same setup when I swapped my 6-bolt and I did not know the 2g manifold wouldn't match the 1g head. The car didn't start until I swapped manifolds.

You were running a 2g intake on a 1g head which won't work right because the 2g ports won't actually cover the 1g port and you will have giant vacuum/boost leaks. He is running a 2g head with a 1g intake manifold which will seal up just fine, but cause a little turbulence in the intake.

In addition to the manifold issue, how are you running the map sensor since the 1g manifold doesn't have a flange? Also, I assume you're logging since you knew the timing figures....why aren't you tuning it with ecuflash??? You have a 98. Of course its gonna be slow when you have no way to manipulate the timing curve.

There is no such thing as a map sensor on a 2g turbo car. There is a mdp sensor, but no map sensor. It doesn't control fuel like on a speed density setup so the engine will run fine without it, but it will just throw a check engine light.

 

[allrice4g63]

I have been looking into to speed density... I already have the gm map sensor and the gm iat sensor... What programs do you guys suggest. Jackal? Ds-map? Ostrich? I "WAS" leaning towards flashing the ecu since i already have evoscan and a vag-com cable so all i would need would be the open port 2.0. So i guess my question is with me having the map and iat sensor already and me having the flashable ecu which is A> better and Which is B> cheaper.. Speed density or ecu flash...........
I have heard that running density is easier as it kind of tunes itself in a way. Dont i also need a cable to soldier directly to the ecu and how much does this cable cost?

 

[92AWDHX40]

get a ecu flash and be done with it, unless you really want to tinker with sd, i know of only ecmlink, so im not familiar with those other tuning methods.

 

[rr06rs]

The car will start just fine with a 1g intake on a 2g head. It will also run good under boost. Is this the ideal setup, no, but it will run good.



You were running a 2g intake on a 1g head which won't work right because the 2g ports won't actually cover the 1g port and you will have giant vacuum/boost leaks. He is running a 2g head with a 1g intake manifold which will seal up just fine, but cause a little turbulence in the intake.



There is no such thing as a map sensor on a 2g turbo car. There is a mdp sensor, but no map sensor. It doesn't control fuel like on a speed density setup so the engine will run fine without it, but it will just throw a check engine light.

Sorry, I wrote mdp sensor and my phone corrected it to map. However, I wasn't aware that the car would run without it.

You can run SD with ecuflash very easily and I'd get that intake manifold switched out.

 

[Jazz]

Jackal is for the 1g cars only

 

[brian9397gsx]

Jackal is a tuning program for 1st gen cars with an eprom ecu and ostrich installed. Your a second gen so no you cannot run jackal. If you buy an eprom ecu you can use an ostrich and tuner pro but then youll need a logger. Best and cheapest way for you is to use ecuflash since you have 75% of the parts needed and if you do some actual research on it you will find you can do speed density with ecu flash and your ecu.

 

[allrice4g63]

I think i have figured out what is wrong here... I was trying to set my stft and ltft last night and while i was playing with the maft i noticed everytime i turned a knob nothing happened and he car would idle the same and id get the same afr. I wouldnt even get a red flash to show that the unit accepted the change.. So go figure im sure the maft is bad... I have owned 4 of these things now and every single one is garbage i will never own one again..

 

[rhamlinii]

I think i have figured out what is wrong here... I was trying to set my stft and ltft last night and while i was playing with the maft i noticed everytime i turned a knob nothing happened and he car would idle the same and id get the same afr. I wouldnt even get a red flash to show that the unit accepted the change.. So go figure im sure the maft is bad... I have owned 4 of these things now and every single one is garbage i will never own one again..

What is the compression ratio of your motor ? I would tell you that you have the wrong motor for that turbo. Any stock motor and tuned 2g would be faster then you pound for pound with that turbo. My piston are 7.5 to 1.

 

[chadillac2820]

What is the compression ratio of your motor ? I would tell you that you have the wrong motor for that turbo. Any stock motor and tuned 2g would be faster then you pound for pound with that turbo. My piston are 7.5 to 1.

Whaaaa?

 

[T is for TURBO]

What is the compression ratio of your motor ? I would tell you that you have the wrong motor for that turbo. Any stock motor and tuned 2g would be faster then you pound for pound with that turbo. My piston are 7.5 to 1.

Whaaaa?

Also confused. You statement makes zero sense.

 

[chadillac2820]

Stock motor as in 7 bolt with a t25? T25 has no chance

 

[allrice4g63]

What is the compression ratio of your motor ? I would tell you that you have the wrong motor for that turbo. Any stock motor and tuned 2g would be faster then you pound for pound with that turbo. My piston are 7.5 to 1.[/QUOTE


I have a 6 bolt motor last i checked a 14b turbo came on a 6 bolt?

 

[Firegst]

I have 550's with a evo3 16g at 18 psi all 2g stock manifold etc and my timing is only at 9-10 in boost with AFR's around 11-11.2 and the car feels great! If you can log I would suggest you do that and then post it.

 

[bastarddsm]

Yeah, 7.5:1 thats low. Give it some timining! like set the cas to 10*....that'll wake her up!

 

[gprix1]

A 1g intake manifold on a 2g head is going to be all kinds of wrong. If you really only have the 1g intake available to you and you haven't already tried to port-match the head to the 1g intake, I have an extra 2g intake I will GIVE you to make this right. PM me if you want it.