Alternator/Coil pack...what is it????

[vlaar]

Alright here is the scoop on things. Driving last night alongside another DSM'r doing some tuning pulls. Car is feeling great pulling nice. All of a sudden under normal crusing conditions, the car basically felt like it was running on 2 cylinders. It threw a code for the ignition coil according to the logger. I drove like this for about 10 minutes to my friends house where we put in a 4 month old Bosch alternator. The battery is only 1 month old. Started the car up and bam ran fine. Tried to drive it to my house but it didn't make it. Charged the battery and drove another 2 miles or so and it died. Same symtoms as before: lights dimming, running on 2 cylinders ,etc Got a new battery this morning and bam same thing as yesterday night. Threw the code for the ignition coil. Put in my old non-EPROM ECU and it worked fine, car ran great. However, according to the logger, my battery voltage is at 12v. Not sure why it's this low. Please help me. I'm thinking I might be needing a coil pack, but don't want to drop 130 bux on a new one from Mitsu if I don't have to. Thanks.

Kevin

My AIM name is: FORCEFED2LTSi

 

[Jason84]

do you have a system in the car ? (stereo)

 

[vlaar]

No, just regular ole speakers/standard cd head unit. No woofers, amps, etc. As of now, the car is running fine. The real test is to see how long this lasts. I'm going home Wed so I want the car to be fine and not break down on me. I have the stock, non eprom ECU in the car now.

 

[Enigma_Man]

Few things:

1) Clean the battery terminals! Get a battery terminal cleaner thingy, and really give them a good going-over. Even though you put on a new battery, there can be a thin coating of corrosion on the terminals that make a lousy connection.

2) How old/new are your plugs/wires?

3) It could just be the ignition coil.

-Jesse

 

[vlaar]

Here's the weird thing. The car runs fine now with the non eprom ECU that the car came with when I bought it. Caps were replaced a year and a half ago and the ECU is still in great shape. Caps were also replaced on my EPROM ECU a few months back. Why would the car throw a code ignition coil on the EPROM ECU and NOT the non-eprom one? Someone help me figure this out. I've already emailed Jeff O. from www.dsmchips.com since he worked on my EPROM ECU. Plugs are a couple months old, accel wires are 1 yr old.

Note: When I put the EPROM ECU in my friends '90 Laser, his car threw the same code and ran on two cylinders.

 

[vlaar]

Help me please... Today the car won't start after it ran fine for two days with the semi new alternator and brand new battery. The battery voltage according to the logger is only 10 volts. Went down to 8 which isn't good. Here EXACTLY why I think this is occuring. When I was hooking up my alcohol injection, I put one of the wire taps in an open slot RIGHT ABOVE the fusebox. As soon as I did this and attempted to start the car to test the alcohol pump, etc, I hear a loud pop. Found out later that the battery fuse blew. Changed it and the car started right up. I"m thinking I may have a short somewhere. But what would cause the battery voltage to be so low if the alternator is good...??? Thanks.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by vlaar
[B
...
The battery voltage according to the logger is only 10 volts. Went down to 8 which isn't good. Here EXACTLY why I think this is occuring. When I was hooking up my alcohol injection, I put one of the wire taps in an open slot RIGHT ABOVE the fusebox. As soon as I did this and attempted to start the car to test the alcohol pump, etc, I hear a loud pop. Found out later that the battery fuse blew. Changed it and the car started right up. I"m thinking I may have a short somewhere[/B]

I would use a probe type test light and check all the large fuses, then all the others. It it's a 2 wire plug into the Alt, with the key on one should be full battery voltage, the other will be much less for it passes through the brushes and the rotor windings. The large wire at the Alt. should be hot all the time (battery voltage).

Let me know what you find and if you fix it.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[vlaar]

The only problem is I have no car or anyone here to take me to places to buy this stuff. Carquest is in walking distance though...even though I hate the place. Anyway, all of the large fuses such as battery, alternator, etc in the engine bay are fine. I'm just in a rut as to what to do. I hate ripping stuff apart if I don't exactly know what I'm doing or have directions. I would be more than willing to call you or anyone else up so that you could take me through step by step as to what to do. I do have a voltmeter here at the apt. Thanks.

Kevin

Home Phone: 352-377-8869

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by vlaar
The only problem is I have no car or anyone here to take me to places to buy this stuff. Carquest is in walking distance though...even though I hate the place. Anyway, all of the large fuses such as battery, alternator, etc in the engine bay are fine. I'm just in a rut as to what to do. I hate ripping stuff apart if I don't exactly know what I'm doing or have directions.

(A)
With your volt meter set on 20v and the key _off_ test the large B+ lead at the Alt, and the 2 small wires. Two of the three should be battery voltage and third should be an open circuit. With the key _on_ the third wire will have 6v-9v if your wiring circuit is good.

(B)
With the same results and the engine running you should have 14.2v-14.8v charging voltage _or_ the Alt is bad and need to be replaced.

I believe you have an ignition relay which you can test if something in (A) does not pass. You may have another similar relay for other circuits which you can "borrow" and substitute if you encounter a circuit failure.

You should clean any of the obvious battery terminal corrosion with water / baking soda and wipe off. Sandpaper, wire brush and/or a pen knife can scrape them clean if you don't have a battery terminal cleaner.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[vlaar]

I just checked the Blead on the backside of the alternator. It only read 5.8 v with the ignition on/car off. My battery voltage reads 6 volts now according to my pocketlogger. Should I do this again after I have my friend jump my battery???

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by vlaar
I just checked the Blead on the backside of the alternator. It only read 5.8 v with the ignition on/car off. My battery voltage reads 6 volts now according to my pocketlogger. Should I do this again after I have my friend jump my battery???

You should have a charged battery... 13.2v approx for a resting battery. If you use jumpers expect some fractions less but you can't expect a 12v relay to work at 6v. Until you get things charged don't start splitting hairs just yet.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Defiant]

Do you have the vinyl cover over the positive post?

 

[Jason84]

did you start having these problems when somebody jumpstarted you ?


never ever jump start a dsm...

and a charged battery is only 12.5V

 

[vlaar]

Ok, so I'm putting in my new 90 amp alternator tomorrow (if I get it via UPS Anyway, I'm hoping this solves ALL my electrical/dying type problems. What could cause a new alternator to go bad--if anything? I'd really hate to burn out this new alternator because I have an electrical short or something...

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Jason84
did you start having these problems when somebody jumpstarted you ?
never ever jump start a dsm...
and a charged battery is only 12.5V

It would be good if you could show us where this could be found from a credible source rather than urban legends.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[tlnpwr]

u could just have a bad alt. a tech @ my shop put 3 different alternators in before he got a good one. and they were directly from my part distributor. same thing happened with a wiper motor on a toyota. both from the distributor didnt work right. got it from the dealer & everything was fine.

 

[vlaar]

With the new 90amp alternator in, the battery voltage is still low (11 volts). I take it down to Carquest where I bought the battery. They charge it for me. They say the battery is good, but the charging system is low. They say the alternator isn't putting out. Alternator is brand new leading me to believe that the wiring is bad somewhere. I'm taking it to a local mechanic shop who will hopefully solve the problem. They're extremely honest and really know their stuff. I'm at a loss as to why this problem is occuring.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by vlaar
With the new 90amp alternator in, the battery voltage is still low (11 volts).
...
leading me to believe that the wiring is bad somewhere.
...
I'm at a loss as to why this problem is occuring.

Yes, I agree you have an open circuit in the charging system. The schematic isn't that difficult to read if you use a ruler and follow the lines. More than likely you have a burned fuse or ign relay or bad contact at one of those connections.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[vlaar]

If someone can tell me EXACTLY what wires/fuses to check, I'll do it. I've checked every single fuse in the engine bay and under the dash.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by vlaar
If someone can tell me EXACTLY what wires/fuses to check, I'll do it. I've checked every single fuse in the engine bay and under the dash.

The Alt fuse on my son's TSI I think was the largest value there... 60?-80? amps. Someone recently reported that the bolt had come loose on their fuse and that was giving them charging and testing problems. As I recall you can't really see it but think it's a 10mm socket. My point here is if the power coming from the battery goes through the good fuse and then the bolt making the contact going to the Alt B+ is loose you will have no charging BUT because the DVM draws so little it can pass current and show as being good. It's kinda a long shot but might just be the problem.

Not sure I want to endorse this but if you can find the field winding output and put battery voltage to it the Alt will run wild could give you 90v+. Of course if there is an open circuit between the B+ and the battery+ it won't do anything. This is best done on the bench for running 90+v into the system will destroy a lot of components.

You could bypass the B+ and using a booster cable connect direct to the B+ and the battery+ and it should charge if there is an open circuit through the fuse. This won't do any harm, might make a fairly healthy spark as it tries to charge the battery.

Sorry I don't have book in front of me so can't get more specific.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[vlaar]

Ok, here is the final diagnosis. They said that the one main wire on the alternator is fine. It's getting hot. The other side/wire of the alternator is not fine. They said it's a wire related to the alternator warning lite inside the dash. Wires in the engine bay are fine. According to the diagram they printed out for me, it looks like one side of the "S" side of the alternator is not getting juiced. This is from the 30A fuse to ignition switch. I'm not sure how to attach the diagram. I can send it to someone if they want it. I just want to find out where the short/burned wire is

 

[vlaar]

Well, problem FINALLY solved. I took it in to an Auto Electric shop here in Gville since I was fet up with the entire situation. They have been working on it on and off for the past several days now. I'm picking it up today so I'll let everyone know EXACTLY what was done etc. Thanks for all the help!

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by vlaar
...

They have been working on it on and off for the past several days now. I'm picking it up today so I'll let everyone know EXACTLY what was done etc. Thanks for all the help!

That's too bad, I don't like the sound of them taking "several days". Without being able to verify everything as previously outlined the only real remaining failure could be in the current limiting device (replacing the voltage regulator) that is part of the self test circuit. While these fail for other reasons this would be unusual. Of course we don't know what happened with the radio installation/ repair which started this mess in the first place.

Do let us know what they report and hope they don't give you some song and dance mumbo jumbo because they can't read a circuit diagram either. As you can see there is nothing like hand-on repair and diagnostics.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[vlaar]

Here is a brief synopsis of what was done to the car. Oh, the total bill for the work (11.2 hrs) was 540 dollars. I guess it could have been worse. "Check system and short in trigger circuit to alternator. Trace and rewire system to restore fault amp alternator trigger functions. Use a 5a blade fuse to protect trigger from backfire, short in fender backfire. I can't really read his writing since it sux. So basically, near the drivers side panel (wheel), there is a wire that is bypassed. I just hope it holds up since this car has NEVER ever had an electrical problem of sort. Thanks again for all the help.