Alright guys...tell me how I can salvage this cam install

[brandnew161]

I've had my talon in storage for the winter and a few days ago I finally decided to go up and install the cams/gears I've had layig around. (Installed BC 272/272 cams and Fidanza adj. cam gears). I've read a few tutorials on how to do it and I had about 4 hours to do the project. I zip tied the belt to make sure that it did not move at all, and it didnt. Bled the lifters, greased the journals, everything to a t. Then just after I had finished everything up and slipped the belt back on the intake cam I noticed something. I never cranked the motor to TDC. I forgot all about it. When I had started, the dowel pins were just after the 3 o' clock position because I remember looking right at it. I dont know how I forgot to do it and i'm kicking myself real hard for it. So my question is, is it too late to do anything about it now? Would it be easiest to just re-time the motor? Maybe I should ask this, what is the purpose of putting the motor to TDC if the dowel pins of the new cams end up in the same location as the stock cams were before the install?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Fabian]

hahaha oh man, dude, not tryin to be a dick. But ya gotta admit, it's KINDA funny you did that. Stupid mistakes happen the most when you're in a hurry. The other night I was finishing up my awd project and I had put on and taken off the water pump pulley like 4 times because I kept trying to hurry up and get everything done too fast. Anywho, I'd think that you're gonna be just fine, you're just going to have to place the cam in the correct position that it was in before you removed the stock cam. You can tell because some valves are going to be open and some are shut, so you can use the lobes on the cam to find what position it should be in. Just take you're time and figure it out. But yes, it can be done.

 

[ADrewzki]

how did you maintain tension on the timing belt when you replaced the cams and gears? My concern would be that your autotensioner could potentially be at the end of it's travel causing your timing belt to be slacker than it should be and possibly jumping timing. Not saying it's going to happen but that would be my worry.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

how did you maintain tension on the timing belt when you replaced the cams and gears? My concern would be that your autotensioner could potentially be at the end of it's travel causing your timing belt to be slacker than it should be and possibly jumping timing. Not saying it's going to happen but that would be my worry.

He should be able to retension it with the tensioner pulley. The same way you would when you retension a belt and not replace the pulleys.

I think that if you take the cams out, find TDC on the first piston, and then put the cams as close to alignment and then tension the belt around the gears, you should be ok.

But, ADrewzki could be right about the tensioner, you may want to put the pin in and then loosen the tension on it, and then retension it after the belt is on. Im not sure. Ive put a timing belt on, but not in this situation.

 

[brandnew161]

hahaha oh man, dude, not tryin to be a dick. But ya gotta admit, it's KINDA funny you did that. Stupid mistakes happen the most when you're in a hurry. The other night I was finishing up my awd project and I had put on and taken off the water pump pulley like 4 times because I kept trying to hurry up and get everything done too fast. Anywho, I'd think that you're gonna be just fine, you're just going to have to place the cam in the correct position that it was in before you removed the stock cam. You can tell because some valves are going to be open and some are shut, so you can use the lobes on the cam to find what position it should be in. Just take you're time and figure it out. But yes, it can be done.

Yeah I know. I knew I should have done it on a day when I had more time to spare. I guess that's what happens right.

Here's what I did in detail. I cracked the cam bolts but left them bolted up. Starting with the exhaust cam I removed the caps and set them aside along with the bolts. Next I swapped out the cam. After putting the caps back on and taking mental note of where the direction of the dowel pin was, I swapped out the cam gear. After that aftermarket cam was all set I made made sure that the new cam was in the same location as the stock one was (according to the dowel pin).

I tried to follow RRE's tutorial minus the crucial first step.

As far as the uto tensioner goes, there was a little slack in the belt. When doing the first cam and gear I managed to barely get the belt off and slip in back on. However when doing the 2nd cam I reallyy had to pry the belt back on. The tensioner is new, the stock one was repplaced when the motor was rebuilt. It was concerning to me though that I could even slide the belt off in the first place

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Its because there was still tension on the belt provided by the tensioner pulley and autotensioner. I cant believe you were even able to get the belt back on. Jeez. You did it all wrong .

 

[El Cuervo]

Personally, I would just re-time everything. Make sure that all the timing marks line up. Did you have a hard time removing the cam sprocket bolts? If so, you could have miss align the timing marks by rotating the engine counter clock wise. I'm not saying that it happend. But there is a posibility. So again. I personally would just take the belts and timing cover off and check that everything is align. It would suck to be one tooth out of aligment. Better safe than sorry.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Personally, I would just re-time everything. Make sure that all the timing marks line up. Did you have a hard time removing the cam sprocket bolts? If so, you could have miss align the timing marks by rotating the engine counter clock wise. I'm not saying that it happend. But there is a posibility. So again. I personally would just take the belts and timing cover off and check that everything is align. It would suck to be one tooth out of aligment. Better safe than sorry.

Yea. I agree. Just start over and take your time.

 

[toofast82]

Yea. I agree. Just start over and take your time.

Yep, take your time and do it right.
You'll be spending a lot more time to take it apart if you break something than you will just doing it correctly the first time

 

[spoonman]

When you are finally ready to star the car do not let it just sit at idle! The engine needs to be held around 2500 RPM's for at least 20 minutes. It is okay to let it idle for a minute or less at initial start up. The reason that you do not want to keep the engine at low RPM's is because the loads on the cam lobe are highest at low rpm and become lower at high rpm. The reason behind this is that the increased valve speed increases the inertia, like a less extreme valve float.

A lot of people put in new stronger valve springs and a new cam and actually damage the camshaft. When a new cam is installed it needs to "bed in" and be "work" stress hardened. This is why it can not be idled.

 

[Fabian]

I also strongly recommend NEVER sliding or prying your timing belt off the cams like that again. You could really stretch it by doing it that way or worse create a tear and might end up damaging the belt in which we all know what the possible end results could be of that.

 

[brandnew161]

alright i'm just going to re-do everything. Like you guys said, better safe than sorry. It'll be more of a project replacing the valves and taking everything back apart if it really is wrong now.

Still can't believe it, i'm usually meticulous with this stuff.

Thanks for the help once again

 

[brandnew161]

UPDATE:

Alright so i just started the process of dissassembling the left side of the motor. However, I have a question for you guys. In all the tutorials i read it says, after putting the #1 piston to TDC, check the timing mark on the crankshaft sprocket to see if it lines up with the "T" on the plastic timing belt cover. I see the "T" on the cover, but what is the reference point for the timing mark on the sprocket? Only thing I can see is a small cutout circle which is about a cm or 2 in diameter. Is it that? Or is there a tick mark? Before I continue with the timing job, I want to see if i'm really out of time. Thanks

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[ADrewzki]

UPDATE:

Alright so i just started the process of dissassembling the left side of the motor. However, I have a question for you guys. In all the tutorials i read it says, after putting the #1 piston to TDC, check the timing mark on the crankshaft sprocket to see if it lines up with the "T" on the plastic timing belt cover. I see the "T" on the cover, but what is the reference point for the timing mark on the sprocket? Only thing I can see is a small cutout circle which is about a cm or 2 in diameter. Is it that? Or is there a tick mark? Before I continue with the timing job, I want to see if i'm really out of time. Thanks

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Your crank pulley (the one that drives the accessory belts) will have a small notch where it needs to line up at the very outer edge. It normally comes marked with white when new and wears off over time. I put a little bit of whiteout or a small dab of white paint on it to make it stand out. That way you can see it when you're timing your engine.

Andrew