Alignment gone wrong

[Zefal151]

So this is in the newbie forum since I'm a noob about this, but i don't know if it belongs elsewhere.

So i go to get my alignment done after installing my new DGR coilovers (lowering the car about 1" to 1.25") and these are the numbers i get back, bolded info is bad numbers

Front
Left - Item - Right

-1.8 - Camber - -1.2

3.0 - Caster - 5.6

0.50 - Toe - 0.50

1.00 - Total Toe

Rear
Left - Item - Right

-2.3 - Camber - -2.3

0.12 - Toe - 0.07

0.19 - Total Toe

Now onto the good stuff.... The guy said i need a rear camber kit, a front camber kit, a lower control arm for the drivers front, and need to get a new "axle shaft boot kit - outer" for the same drivers front

I already have the STM rear camber kit, just need to install it

So please, anyone with the knowledge of this stuff point me in the right direction because i don't feel like tossing $1300 to get this all fixed by them.

 

[snowborder714]

How to fix the driver's side caster issue, if you choose to.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/176057-resolved-2g-caster-changing.html

They should have adjusted the tie rods in the front to get the toe much closer to 0 than that. Both front and back should be as close to 0 as you can get them, only allowing a tiny bit of positive toe if they can't.

If you're ok with running that much negative camber up front, you could do so, as long as you get the toe corrected. There's no issue with that, however it doesn't match up with what their alignment machines tell them is correct.


Moved to the handling tech since you're not a noob

 

[Zefal151]

They never did the alignment, it was a checkup and said i should fix all the major stuff prior to doing the alignment

How to fix the driver's side caster issue, if you choose to.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/176057-resolved-2g-caster-changing.html

After reading that thread, it led me to believe that it was the 97-99 that had the issue with the lower caster and should rotate the bushing 180* to that of the 95-96. Seeing as how i have an early 96, wouldnt mine be theoretically set up that way to begin with, and something else is causing the caster issue?

On a side note, does it matter that the alignment test was setup with a 96 eclipse with 16" wheels and im running 17"? Or could me wheels themselves be warped and throwing off the alignment? Im not sure how they hook the car up to the alignment machine

 

[jtmcinder]

Given that you have exactly the value of caster for the backwards bushing, I'd say that your bushing is backwards, like the later DSMs. So flip it.

Then shim out the upper arms in the rear to cut the camber down. I'd say about 3/16" of washers should do it.

Then take it back for a new alignment and demand less toe. If you autocross, you want a smidge of front toe-out. If you don't autocross, you want a smidge of toe in. (Avoid exactly zero unless and until you get rid of all the squishy bushings.) In the rear, a smidge of toe-in is safest.

A "smidge" is .02 to .04.

 

[snowborder714]

All OEM control arms are now made like the 2gb's were, so unless you have the factory arm (or even have a late 2ga), then you probably have a 2gb-style arm.

 

[jtmcinder]

I just saw the bit about a new lower control arm in the front which reminds me: has the front LCA recall (for ball-joints) been done? If not, have it done ASAP.

 

[Zefal151]

how do i check?

 

[snowborder714]

Call up your local Mitsu dealer, give them your VIN number, and ask if all recalls have been performed.

 

[Zefal151]

Perfect thanks, will do that tomorrow for sure, now just need to find someone local with a press to flip this bushing

I called up the local Mitsu dealer, and they said i have no open recalls for my car. Now to find a shop with a press around me.

So just from what im reading, i dont need to replace the lower control arm, since they figured it was the CA that was causing the caster issue. As for the front camber kit, i dont mind running that much camber, wish it was a little lower, but should be fine....

Now, as for the CV boot, I think im going to see how bad it is, and then just wait it out for the time being since i plan to replace both sides later on.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Just out of curiosity, where are you taking your car in for your alignment? I never want to go there.

Have they fixed your toe yet?

 

[snowborder714]

Just out of curiosity, where are you taking your car in for your alignment? I never want to go there.

Have they fixed your toe yet?

See this from a previous post.

They never did the alignment, it was a checkup and said i should fix all the major stuff prior to doing the alignment

So just from what im reading, i dont need to replace the lower control arm, since they figured it was the CA that was causing the caster issue. As for the front camber kit, i dont mind running that much camber, wish it was a little lower, but should be fine....

Not sure I understand this statement.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

See this from a previous post.

Ah missed that, thanks.

Not sure I understand this statement.

I thought about that too. I had guessed that the shop thought that the arm was tweaked/worn/bent in some fashion other than a loose balljoint to produce the difference in caster. So based on the caster reading on the driver's side the shop may have erroneously suggested replacement of the compression arm.


How long until the cv boot gets repaired? Are you driving the car in the mean time?

 

[Zefal151]

The shop was recommended to me by a couple people. The fact that they put the car up on the alignment machine and got me all the numbers and quoted me everything to fix it and then let me drive off and not pay anything for their time certainly makes me want to go back when its all done.

They said that that Control Arm was possibly bent or something which was causing the Caster issue, so if all i have to do is flip the bushing, then i shouldn't have to get a new control arm.

As for the CV boot, the car is my daily driver, so how long until i get the boot fixed, no idea

As for fixing any of the numbers, they never did the alignment since it wouldn't be a viable idea with the "issues" i had. They will be doing the alignment after i get the bushing flipped and the rear camber kit installed, so hopefully in a week or 2 i can have a good alignment again

 

[DSM Jeff]

If you're already taking that part of the suspension out to swap a bushing, I would replace the axle boot. The worst thing you can do is let is sling all the greese out, introduce dirt and destroy the joint.

 

[Zefal151]

Unless im thinking of it differently isnt only like 3 bolts holding it in, and you dont have to do anything with the rest of the setup??

Not sure how to swap the boot itself, heard its a pain in the a**... I looked and it doesnt seem the boot is all that bad, so not sure...

 

[PieEyedPiper]

The shop was recommended to me by a couple people. The fact that they put the car up on the alignment machine and got me all the numbers and quoted me everything to fix it and then let me drive off and not pay anything for their time certainly makes me want to go back when its all done.

They said that that Control Arm was possibly bent or something which was causing the Caster issue, so if all i have to do is flip the bushing, then i shouldn't have to get a new control arm.

As for the CV boot, the car is my daily driver, so how long until i get the boot fixed, no idea

As for fixing any of the numbers, they never did the alignment since it wouldn't be a viable idea with the "issues" i had. They will be doing the alignment after i get the bushing flipped and the rear camber kit installed, so hopefully in a week or 2 i can have a good alignment again

Ahh, very cool of a shop to be so kind. More rare than I'd like.

The problem is, if you keep driving your daily driver around with half an inch of toe on each corner you're not going to have anything left to align.

 

[Zefal151]

Is that in regards to the tires or the wheels or the actual system itself?

 

[snowborder714]

The tires will be eaten very quickly with that much toe. I would drive the car as little as possible until that is corrected.

 

[Zefal151]

Well, that sucks, but not totally against it, im trying to get the wife to let me buy new wheels for the car, which would mean i have to replace all my tires ... i do appreciate the warning seeing as how these tires are less then a year old in the front... but seeing as how its my DD, i don't have much of a choice on that one... which is why im trying to get this done in the next week

 

[jtmcinder]

The tires will be eaten very quickly with that much toe. I would drive the car as little as possible until that is corrected.

If you have to drive a car with too much toe on the street, under-inflate the tires to let the sidewall work.

Note that excess toe-in is much less of a problem for tire-wear than excess toe-out, at least when you have some negative camber.

 

[Zefal151]

Ok, well i know that my drivers side leaks air a bit, not sure why but it works in my favor... i will let some air out of the pass side later today after work... thanks for the heads up... Should be buying a spare compression arm today, so should be able to get the car fixed next weekend

 

[Zefal151]

So just pulled off a lower control arm and noticed the eyelets were a little different. Any ideas if this will work?

As for the dirtiness of the bar, it has been sitting for a long while... after a quick wipe down with a rag, it looks brand new.

 

[snowborder714]

Not sure I understand what you mean by "a little different". Is it in relation to each other, relation to the pictures you saw in the caster thread I posted above, something else?

 

[Zefal151]

In the pictures from the posts in the other thread, the Eyelet on the arm was off center to either the right or the left, where as on the picture that i posted, the eyelet is dead center

 

[snowborder714]

Do you happen to see any markings on the arm that may be able to indicate whether it's OEM or not?

I'd hate to tell you to go purchase a new one, especially since the compression arms aren't cheap.